Is Jesus God or God's son?

Wolvo · Alley Cat Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 181

In the bible we see many instances where Jesus describes himself as God's son. As a youth i was always brought up to believe that this was the case.

Of late i have seen instances where Jesus is worshipped, where Jesus refers to himself as the visible manifestation of God.

So my question is mainly directed at those who believe Jesus is God. What makes you believe this? Why should a believer accept Jesus as God, rather than God's son.

There is much room for debate within the Christian context. But for me, i cannot see how this is up for debate. Either he is God or he is God's son. One is the right way, the other isn't.

I would be interested to hear both sides of the argument, it's just it seems to me the more i look into God's word that Jesus has been saying that he is God.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

May I suggest you visit the Trinity forum as this idea has been argued endlessly over there.
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GospelCompilation · Bear Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 689 Location: Arizona

I agree with JP, Wolvo... the Trinity forum is the place to discuss this issue. However, since you've asked, I would like to offer a little food for thought.

Imagine: If a white person and a black person were to bare a child, their offspring might have a different skin tone than either one of the parents. However, the child would still be human. Why? Because their parents are human.

One of Jesus' parents was divine, the other one human. So, common sense would tell us that Jesus would have to be a mixture of the two: He would have to be fully human and fully divine, or else He wouldn't be an offspring of both.

Therefore, my question is: If Jesus truly were the Son of God, then wouldn't He (by the sheer fact that He was the offspring of a divine Being) had to have been divine also?

This doesn't necessarily need to be discussed. I offer it merely as Food For Thought.

Wolvo · Alley Cat Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 181

Is there any way a mod could move this thread to the Trinity section then?
I am still finding my feet here and thought this would be the best place to post. However, on reflection it would appear that you are both correct in saying it should be discussed there.

Pete · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Is Jesus God or God's son?

Nobby · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject:

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

ragman13 · German Shepherd Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 325

Hello Wolvo, nice to meet you.

You will notice on this site there are many different views of who Jesus was. From Him being God-or just a man-or a god. I myself am a Trinitarian, I can not speak for the others that have posted but I do see some problems with what has been posted.

1)

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 160

If you are an Olsen then your son is also an Olsen, that is true, but if you are the father Olsen and you are the CEO of a big company, is your son also the CEO. I don't think so. God is God the Creator, and Jesus is the Son sent by His Father to be the sacrifice needed to save His people. That unfortunately does not make Him equal to God or a God. Moses was able to perform many miracles, but his miracles were performed by God through Moses. The same is true of Jesus, Jesus had control of nature and life, but the things He did were done through Him by God. There is no trinity. Trinities were believed by Pagans long before Jesus was born. Jesus and the Apostles were Israelites who do not believe in trinities for gods. Pagans could make a hero or a king a god and they would worship them, Christians have created a religion that can do the same thing, by worshipping a triune god and making heros gods, or saints. I do not believe for one moment that God meant for the faith He created to be changed. Trinities are an abomination to God, read it for yourself in the Old Testament.

habeshaw · Growing Guppy Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 41

hi wolvo...
see that you are new to the concept behind trinity.

Look, no Christian believe that there are three God, If any body believe in three God it is wrong, and that is totally out of the concept of Trinity.
I believe in trinity, but i never say there are three Gods, and i will never say.

Trinity includes, father, son and Holy Spirit.

as son implies younger that father, Trinity doesn't believe on that, all exist at all times

Trinity believes, about their Power, authority
Father=Son==Spirit, (no difference),

Trinity believes, about their work, the three has different tasks, which is:
Using the father God thinks,
using the Son(Word) God Speaks(do things),
using the Spirit, God gives Life.

let me relate that with the bible, Once when the apostles ask Jesus when the last day is, Jesus told them about some of the indication of the last day and then he told them that no body knows when it is, even the angels, even the Son, only Father Knows it.

Wolvo, since Jesus told us that he got all the authority, and now he told us that he dont know something, how is that? is it mean Jesus is a liar? if you don't have the answer for that you of coarse say that Jesus is a liar, or the authority given to Jesus is not full. But Jesus Says I have all the authority.

Wolvo, we, those believe in trinity, believe that, when Jesus say even the son do not know the day, and only father knows the day, Jesus mean that, that day is not spoken, it is only just kept in heart, that is since i explain
using the father God Thinks, that day is kept in heart, and that is the role of the father, and it will be known when the day comes and spoke by the Son(Jesus), that is why Jesus is the one who will come at that day to act on it, to decide.

If you do not understand that i will clarify it more.

to understand the concept of One God and Trinity, let's take the example of Sun.
while we have one sun, we have three property for sun.
a sun has a light, we call it sun
a sun has a heat, we call it sun
a sun has it's size, when we look at( the circle thing), we call it sun.

Remember, but we have only one Sun. That is it.
like, By the father, the Son, the Holy Spirit One God Amen.
that is the concept of trinity, then how can we relate this with the bible.

John 1:1,
In the beginning was the Word(The Son), and the Word was with God(The Father),and the Word was God.(The Son was God), the same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him;(The Word), and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life(The Spirit); and the life was the light of men. ... And the Word(the son) was made
flesh, and dwelt among us,...

OK let's analyse the above sentence, the Word was made flesh, ask any body, is there any body other than Jesus, this phrase belongs to? ask any one, they will tell you that flesh is the flesh of Jesus Christ.

Now if that flesh is the flesh of Jesus Christ, it means that the 'Word' which is at the beginning was Jesus, you get me?
look again on the sentence, and that Word made every thing, and with out him, nothing has been made.
what do you understand about this 'everything'? it means all things except nothing. right? OK

I saw that some people say that, that word is not Jesus, but the word is the quality of God(Father), i don't know where they get that, but for me Of course, it was the quality of the Son(Word) to do every thing. can they say that too, the flesh which it was the Word is the Quality? ask them.

Remember Wolvo, God will not use any material to do a thing, like raising the Dead, he Just use his Word(Jesus).

to understand trinity well, read the Gospel According to John many times, and relate every thing with the old testament
and ask your self that when Jesus says I am the Life, and the truth,, what does he mean? Is there any prophet,
say that I am The Life and the Truth?
can any prophet say that I and the Father is One?

Wolves, some where on the Bible, Jesus says Moses and all the prophet write about me.
Ask those who don't believe Jesus is God to show at least one phrase where Mose speak or write about
Jesus. But i will tell you, i will mention thousand times where mose write about Jesus.

Any way there is a topic about this all issue,"(who is Jesus? and who is God? And what is the concept behind Trinity?
Do Christina's believe in three Gods?)" you can check on that and you will get me there.

See you

Jesus Christ is The First and The last, Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and the Ending
who create the Heaven and the earth, all the creatures.
Of course Jesus is God.

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

Dust · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject:

1 John 5:7-8
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Deuteronomy 6:4
4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
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The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

habeshaw · Growing Guppy Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 41

Ryck, it seems that you are a little bit shocked, which one do you want me to describe, i have written much things and i relate all using the Holy Bible, If you are referring that Mose wrote about Jesus? that is for you to see if there is one.
Ryck, Jesus says,"Moses and all the prophet write about me.", can you get at least one which support this from mose? I doubt, but try. since Jesus can not be wrong. Right? right. Ok.

Try to mention some things, if you can't i will mention tousand times where mose write about Jesus.

Let God give us All Wisdom.

See you

Jesus Christ is The First and The last, Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and the Ending
who create the Heaven and the earth, all the creatures.
Of course Jesus is God.

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094