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Mattathias King Kong

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 2040 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: Now that's a good question! |
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| Quote: | | It is a simple and undeniable historical fact that several major doctrines that now seem central to the Christian faith - such as the doctrine of the Trinity and the deity of Christ - were not present in a full and well-defined, generally accepted form until the fourth or fifth centuries. If they are essential today - as all of the orthodox creeds and confessions insist - it must be because they are true. If they are true, then they must always have been true; they cannot have become true in the fourth or fifth century. But if they are both true and essential, how can it be that the early church took centuries to formulate them? |
(Harold O.J. Brown, Heresies: Heresy And Orthodoxy In The History Of The Church, p. 20) |
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lone-traveler Emperor of the Universe

Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 6365 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
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1Cor. chapter 3
1Cor. chapter 13
Things get built up, and things get torn down. But there are somethings which will always remain.
hugs
lone _________________ Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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james Lion

Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 901 Location: Portland, Ore
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just an opinion,
I believe instead of waiting for the revelation of these things and letting scripture alone define them, theologians and other men from the time of Origen tried to define these things and bring in an intellectual understand of these things. In so doing they defined them outside of scripture, another words they took the INFINITE and used their FINITE minds to define and put new terminology to these things as to bring them into FINITE UNDERSTANDING.
I believe the Bible clearly defines the deity of Christ and believe there is a reason "trinity" is not only an unbiblical term, but ALL people through history were baptised in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ( Matt 28:19, Acts 2:38), until the Nicene Council. Where they went outside scripture and defined God as a "trinity"- A totally unbiblical term in any language. |
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Mattathias King Kong

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 2040 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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The doctrine of unitary monotheism existed prior to the doctrine of the Trinity. There was no doctrine of the Trinity in the first two centuries. It took hundreds of years after the time of the NT writers to develop.
Which is the doctrine that has always been true: unitary monotheism or triune monotheism? |
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james Lion

Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 901 Location: Portland, Ore
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I am not familiar with the terminology but I believe the doctrine that always has been true is the belief that God is one and Manifests Himself in different offices. One God revealing Himself as a Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Melchezidec, and as Lord to Abraham; the same person, one God, revealing these different attributes of Himself. |
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Mattathias King Kong

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 2040 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | | I am not familiar with the terminology but I believe the doctrine that always has been true is the belief that God is one... |
This is common ground for all proponents of monotheism.
| Quote: | | ...and Manifests Himself in different offices. One God revealing Himself as a Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Melchezidec, and as Lord to Abraham; the same person, one God, revealing these different attributes of Himself. |
This is where the various camps divide. (And sometimes hurl stones at one another.) |
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james Lion

Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 901 Location: Portland, Ore
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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You can freely express how you see scriptures, and we reason together, in brotherly love, concerning scriptures. For I do not believe in hurling stones, even if at parting we still do not agree, we should respect one anothers liberty and views.
I am appauled at Bro Steve's -"agree with my views or burn in hell" attitude. This is what keeps people from reasoning together and learning what truth is. |
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Mattathias King Kong

Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 2040 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | You can freely express how you see scriptures, and we reason together, in brotherly love, concerning scriptures. For I do not believe in hurling stones, even if at parting we still do not agree, we should respect one anothers liberty and views.
I am appauled at Bro Steve's -"agree with my views or burn in hell" attitude. This is what keeps people from reasoning together and learning what truth is. |
Well said, James.  |
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Nobby Board - Admin

Joined: 16 Sep 2002 Posts: 5303 Location: Missouri
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hi guys, learn to use the little red flag at the right top side of the page! Any post you want the Admin or me to see. We will see it if you use it!
Nobby |
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jack Sea Monkey
Joined: 11 Jun 2008 Posts: 14
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| I believe Jesus is the the Son of God , if He was God why would He have to be given all power and authority and who could give it to Him and , and should He have already had it before ?? Jack |
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ChristianWoman1 Labrador

Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 302
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Mattathias wrote: | | james wrote: | You can freely express how you see scriptures, and we reason together, in brotherly love, concerning scriptures. For I do not believe in hurling stones, even if at parting we still do not agree, we should respect one anothers liberty and views.
I am appauled at Bro Steve's -"agree with my views or burn in hell" attitude. This is what keeps people from reasoning together and learning what truth is. |
Well said, James.  |
yes...very well said  _________________ ____________________
Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.
ROMANS 12:2 |
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