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AMK
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: How right or wrong is this in your opinion? |
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Replying to a sentence about how all people crave for sameness wherever or whomever they are!
I beleave this is because its much easier for people to cope, Be in control, Feel a part of. Even within a christian setting the main goal is to follow Christ. In order to follow Christ you must accept that he is. If you can accept that. Then you can or should accept that we are all one regardless of differences. But whether in christian or other settings this cannot work because of Human nature. I mean that it is impossible outside of perfection. Acording to Scripture Jesus said: Be ye perfect even as I am perfect. But in order to understand the quote. You need to understand the man/God You can claim to be a christian all your days or a Muslim or whatever, But if you don,t understand the main source. Then you have nothing. If there is a God, Then we have already lost as far as perfection goes. I choose to beleave in The God Of Jesus because it gives me the only explanation I can comprehend. But does he realy exist? I guess I will find out when I die maybe? 
Atoz if you read this, Then know it has nothing to do with what I mentioned earlier. Its another subject in a world way way out of this one 
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bibleCrosswalkNorsk |
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wilber
Banned
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 581
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Pleased to meet you AMK.
| Quote: | | we are all one regardless of differences. |
I agree with this.
I believe in LOVE. I fail to practise it but I believe and I try. For me, God is Love and this is shown in His Son.
wilber |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2876
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings AMK,
The perfection to which Jesus referred was perfection in Love, yet not even that, for the Greek word is Agape, meaning to act for the total benefit on behalf of the other, completely irrespective of oneself. (Can we even do this?)
If we are lost as regards this divine perfection, then it is only because somewhere down within all our actions the self is still served. We love our friends and family because we wish to be loved in return. Perhaps doing good for our known enemy is close to agape, but even then we still hope to gain peace for ourselves. Even our love for God is expressed by most people as a hope or fear to avoid hell – another self serving behaviour.
So how can Sinful Man ever stand in relationship to a Righteous God?
Only because He has decided to imbue or impart Righteousness to you in Jesus name. It is He who makes us righteous, and if you’ve no event or experience to which you can point saying – “Jesus did that.” Then you may wish to continue your search, especially for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost as is evidenced in Acts 2.
God Bless,
Yehu
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There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago. |
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AMK
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: The perfection unto which Jesus refered |
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| Yehu wrote: | | The perfection to which Jesus referred was perfection in Love, yet not even that, for the Greek word is Agape, meaning to act for the total benefit on behalf of the other, completely irrespective of oneself. (Can we even do this?) |
As Man/Woman? No! As one in Jesus, Yes!
Perfection in loveJesus being love covers perfection in everything Love!
| Quote: | | If we are lost as regards this divine perfection, then it is only because somewhere down within all our actions the self is still served |
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Yes, Thats why we are lost without Jesus. Thats why Jesus is the Only way
| Quote: | | We love our friends and family because we wish to be loved in return. Perhaps doing good for our known enemy is close to agape, but even then we still hope to gain peace for ourselves. Even our love for God is expressed by most people as a hope or fear to avoid hell – another self serving behaviour. |
Oh how much greater our peace if we but just love our enemy,s not having anything in return. Although we have that anyway in Jesus, But yet we should not love even for we know Jesus has already rewarded us, But because we are!
| Quote: | So how can Sinful Man ever stand in relationship to a Righteous God?
Only because He has decided to imbue or impart Righteousness to you in Jesus name. It is He who makes us righteous, and if you’ve no event or experience to which you can point saying – “Jesus did that.” Then you may wish to continue your search, especially for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost as is evidenced in Acts 2. |
Yes, And on a more personal note, One has to become a part of a world that is not this one. The rewards are greater all the same especialy if you don,t expect them. But to live,Breath and love when all around you is selfish,Evil is not easy even for one who is but flesh and bones, Created by one who is everything love! But alas! there is no other choice!
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bibleCrosswalkNorsk |
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wilber
Banned
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 581
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | One has to become a part of a world that is not this one. |
Amen, Amen.
Here's the second verse of a well known song. I never sing the first verse which belongs to this world but I sing the second with all my heart:
"And there's another country, I've heard of long ago,
Most dear to them that love her, most great to them that know;
We may not count her armies, we may not see her King;
Her fortress is a faithful heart, her pride is suffering;
And soul by soul and silently her shining bounds increase,
And her ways are ways of gentleness, and all her paths are peace. "
wilber |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: |
...
The perfection to which Jesus referred was perfection in Love, ...
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Atoz: Perfection in Love is Perfect Love for the perfect AND the imperfect!
| Yehushuan wrote: |
...yet not even that, for the Greek word is Agape, meaning to act for the total benefit on behalf of the other, completely irrespective of oneself. (Can we even do this?)
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atoz: Not even God can do ANYTHING without his own SELF, much less us!
It is IMPOSSIBLE for God or any person to do!
So it is NOT self that is the problem
but SELF-HATE!
It is NOT selfishness that is the problem
but self-hate-ishness!
Therefore, Agape means to have an attitude of Love for self as all others so that we auto love all others as self,
and so act for others IN THAT LOVE OF SELF AS ALL OTHERS AND FOR ALL OTHERS AS SELF,
and therefore to act totally without any self-hate, and completely irrespective of ANY Hate of self!!!!!!
Agape therefore also means to act for the total benefit on behalf of the other AS SELF, completely irrespective of HATE OF oneself AS THE OTHER or OF THE OTHER AS ONESELF.
| Yehushuan wrote: |
If we are lost as regards this divine perfection, then it is only because somewhere down within all our actions the self is still served.
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atoz: Therefore, if we are lost as regards this divine perfection of PERFECT LOVE for the imperfect and the perfect, then it is only because somewhere UP THE LINE AND THEREFORE down within all our actions HATRED OF the self AS THE OTHER AND HATRED OF THE OTHER AS SELF is still served.
| Yehushuan wrote: |
We love our friends and family because we wish to be loved in return.
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atoz: We love our friends and family because we wish to be loved in return ONLY WHEN WE ALREADY HATE OURSELVES AS HATED OR AS UNLOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But when we love ourselves as loved and as hated,
we are loving OURSELVES whether others love us or hate us,
we are loving others whether they lvoe us back or hate us back,
and so are loving them for free without any hope of getting any Love back in return---since we are already loving US for free ad loving them for free,
and so we do NOT need their Love in return,
and so we ONLY WANT their Love in return for THEIR benefit--since we are already loving us with Love left over, and we already KNOW that when they love US back, they MUST already BE ALSO and already have ALSO BEEN loving themselves as US for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is How God lvoes us:
Because he wants to, for free, just because.
Deut 7:7-8.
So He only commands and wants us to lvoe him back so HE wd KNOW that we were already loving US the way HE loves us!
sigh
see 1 John 4:19.
| Yehushuan wrote: |
Perhaps doing good for our known enemy is close to agape,
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atoz: Doing good for our known enemy is close to and perfect agape ONLY when we first love ourselves AS our enemy and are already loving our enemy as US and so that we can THEN do good IN THE PERFECT AND WHOLLY GOOD LVOE FOR OUR ENEMY AS ENEMY AND AS FRIEND, AS GOOD AND AS BAD!!!!!!
Doing good for enemy IN HATE of enemy means doing good for enemy IN HATE of self as BAD and so IN HATE of enemy as bad too!
Doing good for the bad enemy IN HATE OF THE ENEMY AS ENEMY AND AS BAD
is 90% Pure hypocrisy of Hate in Hate also of hypocrites!
See Luke 18:9, Then read verses 10-14.
| Yehushuan wrote: |
....but even then we still hope to gain peace for ourselves.
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atoz: Even then we MUST still hope to gain peace for ourselves since we hate ourselves as warriors or at war or as unpeaceful,
and so don't have the Peace of Love that gives us peace of mind BEFORE we have any peace!
see Isaiah 26:3. Prov 16:7
| Yehushuan wrote: | Even our love for God is expressed by most people as a hope or fear to avoid hell – another self serving behaviour.
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atoz: Even our Love for God is expressed as a hope or fear to AVOID hell.... since we hate ourselves as hell-bound and at war with ourselves and at war with others! So any Love we express to God in hate of hell must be fake and conditional and unpeaceful---only part-time Love for God on the condition that He does NOT send us to hell!
| Yehushuan wrote: |
So how can Sinful Man ever stand in relationship to a Righteous God?
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atoz; By loving himself from the heart as God lvoes man from the heart: 1 John 4:19: and so eliminate the SINFULNESS of the sin of self-Hate from the beginning!
God loves man as God loves Himself
to teach man to love himself just as God lvoes him: How?
God loves man as God Himself and as God lvoes Himself: as all words and their opposites!
Mt 5:43-48.
| Yehushuan wrote: |
Only because He has decided to imbue or impart Righteousness to you in Jesus name.
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atoz: That righteousness is the Right Attitude of Unconditional Love....which God commands us to have from the start in our heart as JC had it from the start in his heart!
Mt 22:36-40.
| Yehushuan wrote: | It is He who makes us righteous,
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atoz: Yes, by teaching us and by commanding us to love US, to love OURselves, the self of ours JUST as God and JC love us!
How?
God and JC love US as themselves to teach us to love the SELF of US as God and as JC!
see John 15:9.
| Yehushuan wrote: |
and if you’ve no event or experience to which you can point saying – “Jesus did that.” Then you may wish to continue your search, especially for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost as is evidenced in Acts 2.
God Bless,
Yehu |
atoz: ---- by repenting of any sin of Hate for self as any words so you can RECEIVE THE SPIRIT OF LOVE FOR self as all words,
and so love yourself as God and as all your neighbors and so love all your neighbors and God as yourslef!
The Gift of teh HS is the Gift you give to yourself FROM GOD
BY Repentance of the SINFUL Spirit of self-Hate
* We can NOT think or say or do anything with out our SELF!
God made the self Himself!
So what is wrong is HATE of self!
So what is right is LOVE of self!
Hope that helps.
If not, ask questions.
with all of God's perfect Love for myself as perfect and as imperfect so i auto love all the imprefect and all the perfect with my perfect Love I got from God as he HAD ALREADY been GIVING TO ME all my life,
atoz |
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