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Maverick1337
Goldfish
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 64
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 Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: I don't understand (Luke 14:25-26) |
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Luke 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father,
and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
I can't make sense of this. I read someone saying that this is why Christians are monsters. I must not be reading this right or something because its looking like Jesus is telling people to hate others which I know is 100% false. Someone please make sense of this for me. 
I know that Jesus isn't telling us to hate someone and I want to post otherwise but can't seem to figure this one out. Thanks !! |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2876
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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The Greek word is μισεω and is a primary word meaning, well, to hate. Anything beyond that is interpretation. But you may wish to view the word as something opposite of embrace. We embrace things we love, and until this present day of democratic rebellion, it would be near sacrilegious and unthinkable to betray the faith of one’s parents and families to seek after strange doctrines and beliefs, especially if one were Jewish.
Just look at all the strife, turmoil and conflict over the teaching of Jesus all these past 2000 years. I think it’s very clear that many are scandalized over their faith in Jesus (or even their anti-faith in their parent’s Jesus).
To follow Jesus we need to hate Islam.
To follow Jesus we need to hate Buddhism
To follow Jesus we need to hate Judaism
To follow Jesus we need to hate Paganism
To follow Jesus we need to hate Christianity
To follow Jesus we need to hate the hate in all of the above.
What should we hate of our father, but his hate?
What should we hate of our mother but her hate?
What should we hate of our wife and children and brethren and sisters but their hate?
What should we hate of our own life but our own hate?
In love we cannot embrace Islam.
In love we cannot embrace Buddhism
In love we cannot embrace Judaism
In love we cannot embrace Paganism
In love we cannot embrace Christianity.
(This is why you might wish to see hate as Not embracing.)
In love we cannot embrace the less than perfect, which is the royal Law of Love.
When we love, others will hate us.
And we need to hate their hatred of our love.
Yehu
(And NO I have not converted to the dark side of atoz.)
_________________
There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago. |
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knuckle
Young Wolf
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 501
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2876
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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No knuckle, I’m very serious in this. I’m not making fun of atoz at all. My parents and the Fundamentalist church in which I was brought up excommunicated me because I fell over at a Pentecostal church and started screaming in tongues.
Mat 5:11 KJV Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
They will hate you for my sake, and this hatred is what we are to hate in them. All of that which also not perfect in us.
Yehu
(And I’ve always believed this atoz so don’t gloat.)
_________________
There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago. |
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knuckle
Young Wolf
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 501
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Yehu------------
before I read your post script I thought to myself man,atoz is starting to rub off on folks and it struck me as funny
much love-----------knuckle |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2876
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'm the least of your worries in that regard.
_________________
There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Maverick1337 wrote: | Luke 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father,
and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
I can't make sense of this. I read someone saying that this is why Christians are monsters. I must not be reading this right or something because its looking like Jesus is telling people to hate others which I know is 100% false. Someone please make sense of this for me.
I know that Jesus isn't telling us to hate someone and I want to post otherwise but can't seem to figure this one out. Thanks !! |
Hi M1337!
Great, great question!
It's easy to figure this one and all out once you stick to what you know:
that Jesus telling us to hate others is 100% false!
that JC is NOT telling us to hate someone!
This is longish but very easy & simple since it is the same thing repeated over & over all down the line all the time:
Since JC IS telling us to love all,
Mt 5:44-45, 48
and
all means all words, and
all words have opposites,
and all opposites are enemies,
then,
JC is telling us to love friends and enemies.
Of course!
Now,
3 of the first pairs of enemies or opposite-words are:
Lover and Hater,
and
friend and enemy,
and
first and last.
Now M1337,
you have to be willing to think about this on your own: I am going to write this as if you are talking to yourself:
God loves me as a friend and as an enemy
to teach me, 1 John 4:19,
to love myself as a friend and as an enemy
so that I wd be able
to love God as my friend and as my enemy,
and
to love all others as my friends and enemies,
and so love God and all others as myself.
See?
See matthew 22:36-40.
Same thing with lover and hater:
God loves me as a lover and as a hater
to teach me, 1 John 4:19,
to love myself as a lover and as a hater
so that I wd be able
to love God as as my lover and as my hater,
and
to love all others as my lovers and as my haters,
and so love God and all others as myself.
See?
See matthew 22:36-40.
Same thing with first and last:
God loves me as first and as last
to teach me, 1 John 4:19,
to love myself as first and as last
so that I wd be able
to love God as my first and as my last,
and
to love all others as my firsts and as my lasts,
and so love God and all others as myself.
See?
See matthew 22:36-40.
M1337, this applies to ALL words and their opposites and so covers ALL the names any person is or can ever be!
Do you see the pattern?
Now:
Based on the Golden Rule, Mt 7:12,
God loves himself
as Lover and as hater
and as friend and as enemy,
as first and as last, too.
Right?
So because God loves himself as me as a friend and as an enemy,
and because God loves himself as me as a lover and as a hater,
and because God loves Himself as first and as last,
any time that
God loves me and curses me in Love to bless me,
He looks or sounds or seems EXACTLY LIKE, EXACTLY AS THOUGH, EXACTLY AS a person who hates me and is my enemy who curses me in Hate to curse me,
and so
guess what God SOMETIMES does?
God calls himself AS IF He hates me!!!!!
That explains Malachi 1:1-3: Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated!!!!!
See?
Now M1337, please go back and read your post, concentrating on the words 'looking like'!!
So too,
since God loves Himself as first and as last,
when God wants me to be put first in Love of last,
and when He tells me to put him first,
it LOOKS like and SOUNDS like just as if He is a person who HATES those he puts last and only LOVES those he puts first,
and so
God AGAIN SOMETINES calls it like it LOOKS or like it SOUNDS:
Love me by putting Me first and hate your parents and etc as in Luke 14:26 by putting them last-------
when God means THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT HE IS SAYING:
Put me first
by 100& LOVING those you put first
and
by 100% LOVING those you put last!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
See?
You don't love Me by putting me first,
or esle,
when you put Me or others last, you must hate me and them!
And I have 2 names: First and Last, Alpha and Omega!
But put Love for Me as first and last to put me first or last,
so that whether you put me first or last,
or put me first and put others alst
or put others first and put me last, as in John 1:13,
you wd still love me and them all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sigh
Are you seeing?
Now please read this:
Romans 4:
17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed,
even God, who quickeneth the dead, and
calleth those things which be not as though they were.
So at the bottom of this is Love for your opposites as God has been and is and will be forever loving you as: God's First & Supreme Law of Love:Matthew 22:36-40.
With especial reference to a word that 99.9% of people worldwide hate God as and hate themselves as!
Can you guess what that word is?
Hint:
It is a 4-letter word.
It begins with an 'L.'
So?
So unless and until you repent of hating yourself as any word God loves u as,
then, as you said, you can not read and are not reading and will not be able to read God's word right-ly ---
since to read God's words rightly,
you have to read them as they were all written: in Love ---of all words and their opposites---
so that you wd be able to love yourself and God and all others and understand what God is saying
when He says something that is the opposite TO WHAT you KNOW HE MEANS,
AND
when they and God or you are
LOVERS & are FRIENDS & are FIRST & are BLESSED
BUT sound or look or appear or ARE CALLED AS IF AND AS THOUGH
THEY ARE
HATERS & ENEMIES & LAST & CURSED!
See?
Now please read this same kinda thing here in Matthew 10, and I wanna bet you can figure it out on your own:
Matthew 10:
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me:
and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Good?smile
But if you can't, just ask for help.
Hope that helps.
If it does, ask all the OTHER questions you must have!smile
And if it doesn't,
please ask more questions and or make more comments.
with the Love for all words & their opposites,
by which unconditional Love,
God
also calls things that are not so as if & as tho they are so
and
also calls things that are so as if & as tho they are not so,
atoz
(Note: Typo's ???? Lvoe four times in this post
alone)  - Nobby[Thanx Nobby!lol U have my permanent permission to correct for me! There were more than 4: more like 6! My real concern here Nobby, is that by me having to type 'lvoe' so many times in the 'Find' box to find the bad 'lvoes,' I am permanently training my fingers to type 'lvoe!,' not to mention my poor mind!!!!!!smile Just kidding!smile]
Last edited by atoz on Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:01 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: |
....
Yehu
(And NO I have not converted to the dark side of atoz.) |
And YES, you coulda fooled me, Yehu!smile
I wd only change a few things!
Yehu, the Solution is sooooooooooclear & nu-clear!smile
with all Sides of the Light of Love and Respect
for the light and the dark,
for the light-dark and the dark-light,
for the whitie and the darkie, smile,
for day and night, for wrong and white,
for the heavy and lite, for the camel and the mite,
for the black and the white, smile
atoz,
such a fool in Love as there is now and then, smile
Last edited by atoz on Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:28 am; edited 3 times in total |
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wilber
Banned
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 581
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Hi Maverick
I saw your post. Fantastic question. I wanted to respond but I thought I'd wait for better answers than I could give - and here they are thanks to yehushuan and atoz.
wilber |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| wilber wrote: | Hi Maverick
I saw your post. Fantastic question. I wanted to respond but I thought I'd wait for better answers than I could give - and here they are thanks to yehushuan and atoz.
wilber |
W!
It takes a guru to know a guru!smile
In fact, since you say Yehu is the man and I am the man,
that means that YOU are THE man since you say Y and I are the man!lol
Thank you, MiLord!
But still, youa re the man!smile
with all Love and R,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | The Greek word is μισεω and is a primary word meaning, well, to hate. Anything beyond that is interpretation. But you may wish to view the word as something opposite of embrace. We embrace things we love, and until this present day of democratic rebellion, it would be near sacrilegious and unthinkable to betray the faith of one’s parents and families to seek after strange doctrines and beliefs, especially if one were Jewish.
Just look at all the strife, turmoil and conflict over the teaching of Jesus all these past 2000 years. I think it’s very clear that many are scandalized over their faith in Jesus (or even their anti-faith in their parent’s Jesus).
To follow Jesus we need to hate Islam.
To follow Jesus we need to hate Buddhism
To follow Jesus we need to hate Judaism
To follow Jesus we need to hate Paganism
To follow Jesus we need to hate Christianity
To follow Jesus we need to hate the hate in all of the above.
What should we hate of our father, but his hate?
What should we hate of our mother but her hate?
What should we hate of our wife and children and brethren and sisters but their hate?
What should we hate of our own life but our own hate?
In love we cannot embrace Islam.
In love we cannot embrace Buddhism
In love we cannot embrace Judaism
In love we cannot embrace Paganism
In love we cannot embrace Christianity.
(This is why you might wish to see hate as Not embracing.)
In love we cannot embrace the less than perfect, which is the royal Law of Love.
When we love, others will hate us.
And we need to hate their hatred of our love.
Yehu
(And NO I have not converted to the dark side of atoz.) |
Yehu,
I am NOT gloating since to gloat is to over see in Hate, and also is to hate gloaters!
Ok?
I don't think that I am protesting that Love too much!
In fact, I know that I can not protest that Eternal IOU of Love too much.
I am glad in Love of you and all others as myself.
I was there too!
And I am only so glad too that you ALWAYS believed this stuff on Love.
So all I am here to do in your case is to en-courage you and en-thuse you and re-mind you Confucius-style!
So this is just to help: mine are in CAPITALS to show how little I am adding:
To follow Jesus we need to hate THE SIN OF HATE IN Islam.
To follow Jesus we need to hate THE SIN OF HATE IN Buddhism
To follow Jesus we need to hate THE SIN OF HATE IN Judaism
To follow Jesus we need to hate THE SIN OF HATE IN Paganism
To follow Jesus we need to hate THE SIN OF HATE IN Christianity
To follow Jesus we need to hate the hate in all of the above.
What should we hate of our father, but his SIN OF hate?
What should we hate of our mother but her SIN OF hate?
What should we hate of our wife and children and brethren and sisters but their SIN OF hate?
What should we hate of our own life but our own SIN OF hate?
In love we cannot embrace THE SIN OF HATE IN Islam.
In love we cannot embrace THE SIN OF HATE IN Buddhism
In love we cannot embrace THE SIN OF HATE IN Judaism
In love we cannot embrace THE SIN OF HATE IN Paganism
In love we cannot embrace THE SIN OF HATE IN Christianity.
(This is why you might wish to see hate as Not embracing LOVE.)
In love we cannot embrace THE SIN OF HATE FOR the less than perfect, which PERFECT LOVE FOR THE PERFECT & THE IMPERFECT is the royal Law of Love.
When we love ALL WORDS, others WHO HATE THEMSELVES AS ANY WORDS will & CAN'T HELP BUT hate us AS THEY WERE ALREADY HATING US ALL ALONG.
And we need to hate their SIN OF hatred of & FOR our love.
Hope that helps.
If it does not, please ask questions or make any comments.
Ok?
in the Religion of all of God's Universal & Unconditional Love and Respect
that includes all and excludes none,
and that only uses Its Hate to hate the sin of Hate for any in all,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | No knuckle, I’m very serious in this. I’m not making fun of atoz at all. My parents and the Fundamentalist church in which I was brought up excommunicated me because I fell over at a Pentecostal church and started screaming in tongues.
Mat 5:11 KJV Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
They will hate you for my sake, and this hatred is what we are to hate in them. All of that which also not perfect in us.
Yehu
(And I’ve always believed this atoz so don’t gloat.) |
I am sorry for your experience of that excommunication, Yehu,
but In Love of it and the excommunicators and the excommunicated now,
your Love can never ever again be excommunicated from you!
See?
So all things DO work together for good to those who LOVE God. Rm 8:28.
Therfore,
They will hate you for God's sake,
and this hatred OF THEMSELVES AS US
AND SO AUTOMATICALLY HATRED FOR US AS THEMSELVES
is what we are to hate in them AND IN US AS GOD HATES THAT SIN OF HATRED FOR ANY WORDS.
All of that IMPERFECT HATRED FOR THE IMPERFECT AND FOR THAT which also not perfect in us IS WHAT WE ARE ONLY TO HATE,
WHILE
LOVING WITH WHOLE PERFECT LOVE
THE PERFECT AND IMPERFECT IN US AND IN ALL OTHERS LIKE GOD PERFECTLY LOVES.
Matthew 5:45, 48. 2 Corin 12:9-10.
Hope that encourages you.
Remember too that it is ok to make fun of me since I AM funny and fun-loving and love fun and the funnies!smile
In God's Unexcommunicatable Love from which it is impossible to be excommunicated when we love ourselves as excommunicated and as excommunicators,
atoz |
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Maverick1337
Goldfish
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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In my spare time at work, I thought this through, and the conclusion I came up with was similar to this (in my own mind at least  )
Love------------------->Hate
God-------------------->Others
= =
First Love------------->Last Love (But Love nonetheless)
So, it would be safe to say when He says Hate, it means to "Love Last" opposed to the what the word means in todays society (Not to love at all but to be repulsed, offended, extreme hostility,etc). My little math problem above (lol ) seems somewhat harsh, but makes sense to me if put in perspective.
Thank you Yehushuan and Atoz for your long and extensive responses! This is the kind of thing I was hoping for when I logged in today. Also if you have a second, give my little theory a critique
~~God Bless!~~ |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Maverick1337 wrote: | In my spare time at work, I thought this through, and the conclusion I came up with was similar to this (in my own mind at least )
Love------------------->Hate
God-------------------->Others
= =
First Love------------->Last Love (But Love nonetheless)
So, it would be safe to say when He says Hate, it means to "Love Last" opposed to the what the word means in todays society (Not to love at all but to be repulsed, offended, extreme hostility,etc). My little math problem above (lol ) seems somewhat harsh, but makes sense to me if put in perspective.
Thank you Yehushuan and Atoz for your long and extensive responses! This is the kind of thing I was hoping for when I logged in today. Also if you have a second, give my little theory a critique
~~God Bless!~~ |
I wd give you and do give u an A plus and Xlnt for simplification of all those words!!smile
But Wilber is the MG: The Math Guy!
His word is the LAST word!smile
How about trying to write this out, M1337:
God's Perfect Dream Team is:
Love to the power of ET minus 1,
plus
Hate to the power of NT minus 1,
where ET is everything and NT is Nothing,
and so it reads like this:
Love to the power of ET minus Love of the Sin of hating anything,
plus
Hate of Nothing minus the Righteousness of Hating the sin of hating anything,
is God's Dream Team of Love and Hate!
See what you started M1337?smile
See what happens when you wanna be startin' sumthin'?!smile
in the Math of Love and R for the first and the last,
atoz |
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wilber
Banned
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 581
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