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| Salvation Depends on....? |
| Grace, alone |
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14% |
[ 1 ] |
| Faith, alone |
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14% |
[ 1 ] |
| Grace + Faith = Salvation, which results in good Works |
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71% |
[ 5 ] |
| keeping God's Commandments, working to earn God's Favor |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Gaining Knowledge of HOW Salvation works |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| "Once Saved, Always Saved" OR, Universal Salvation |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Believing in Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection, without anything else added |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I have a different viewpoint in mind |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: Salvation Depends on ? |
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Salvation, depends on knowledge, by understanding of Bible definitions of certain words.
I believe that Salvation, is the result of combining several definitions, of Biblical words.
I believe that all these words listed below are neccessary to the understanding of ...HOW Salvation works, in a person's life.
#1.) GRACE: Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
#2.) FAITH: Romans 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
#3.) SIN: 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
#4.) GOD'S LAW (Commandments): Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's.
NOTE: THere are other of God's Law not covered here
#5.) REPENTANCE:
Psalms 51:2 Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin [is] ever before me.
51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.
51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden [part] thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; [that] the bones [which] thou hast broken may rejoice.
51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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More and more it seems salvation depends on what church people attend. 
But, if I had to pick one, I'd go with "B". |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | | More and more it seems salvation depends on what church people attend. :roll: |
It is the Bible, that a person needs to be concerned with.
A church, any church, provides absolutely no guarantee in matters of salvation.
WHY ?
Because 96% of the world's churches teaches errors, which if a person studies their Bible will see for themselves.
The Bible, alone ....is the ONLY instruction book, which outlines the Plan of Salvation.
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | eleven wrote: | | More and more it seems salvation depends on what church people attend. |
It is the Bible, that a person needs to be concerned with.
A church, any church, provides absolutely no guarantee in matters of salvation.
WHY ?
Because 96% of the world's churches teaches errors, which if a person studies their Bible will see for themselves.
The Bible, alone ....is the ONLY instruction book, which outlines the Plan of Salvation.
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. |
Well, I tend to agree with you, although I don't know where you get your statistics from.
However, my point is too many people think it is a pastors job to educate them on the Bible. WRONG!!!
How do you know if what you are being "fed" is truth if you don't study it yourself? Just because someone wears a collar (or a title), that doesn't make them any kind of authority. Don't be afraid to question. |
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james
Lion
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 901
Location: Portland, Ore
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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John 3:16,36 - whosoever BELIEVETH on Him HAS EVERLASTING LIFE.
Romans 10:9,10 - if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou SHALT BE SAVED.
Plus many other scriptures in which the Bible plainly states what salvation consist of ,yet we are always making it more difficult than what it is or even adding to it. I will stick with what scripture plainly says. |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | | John 3:16,36 - whosoever BELIEVETH on Him HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. |
Well...when Jesus Christ tells the believer to keep the 7th day sabbath Holy, like HE Himself did....what is the reaction of most people in the Christian world ?
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say ?
John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
| Quote: | | Romans 10:9,10 - if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou SHALT BE SAVED. |
OK...go on and finish everything else He said.
| Quote: |
Plus many other scriptures in which the Bible plainly states what salvation consist of ,yet we are always making it more difficult than what it is or even adding to it. |
OR...maybe taking away things that were said to do ? | Quote: | | I will stick with what scripture plainly says. |
If that were the case. why do you suppose there are so many different denominations, each claiming to believe the Bible ?
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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james
Lion
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 901
Location: Portland, Ore
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: |
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When did Jesus Christ tell believers to keep the 7 day Sabbath holy ?
Also the reason for so many different denominations is people DO NOT take scripture for what it says but take it upon themselves to intepret what is written as meaning something else. We need to stand on what scripture plainly says. Through interpreting it people get scripture to line up with what they want to believe instead of us lining up our beliefs with what scripture plainly says.
"..man does not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD."
"...and the COMMON PEOPLE heard Him gladly."
" All scripture is given by inspiration of God......" |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 769
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | | eleven wrote: | | More and more it seems salvation depends on what church people attend. |
It is the Bible, that a person needs to be concerned with.
A church, any church, provides absolutely no guarantee in matters of salvation.
WHY ?
Because 96% of the world's churches teaches errors, which if a person studies their Bible will see for themselves.
The Bible, alone ....is the ONLY instruction book, which outlines the Plan of Salvation.
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. |
Well, I tend to agree with you, although I don't know where you get your statistics from.
However, my point is too many people think it is a pastors job to educate them on the Bible. WRONG!!!
How do you know if what you are being "fed" is truth if you don't study it yourself? Just because someone wears a collar (or a title), that doesn't make them any kind of authority. Don't be afraid to question. |
EXCELLENT POINT! As a pastor myself, I always tell the people I pastor to examine scripturally everything I tell them for themselves. Granted, they have not gone to seminary and studied hermeneutics or Greek or Hebrew as I have done but I have taught them the basics of correct Bible study and interpretation. If people only come to church to be "fed" without daily being "fed" on the Word themselves, they are doing themselves a great disservice and will be starving themselves. Good point! |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | | When did Jesus Christ tell believers to keep the 7 day Sabbath holy ? |
1 Corithians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Need more evidence ?
John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.
10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
THIS is how the Bible always interprets itself.....
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
| Quote: |
Also the reason for so many different denominations is people DO NOT take scripture for what it says but take it upon themselves to intepret what is written as meaning something else. |
That is becaause most people refuse to let the Bible interpret itself, as I've shown above.
| Quote: |
We need to stand on what scripture plainly says. |
OK then.....why do the vast majority of people in the Christian world, hold Sunday worship services, when the Bible says absolutely nothing about doing any such thing ?
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Through interpreting it people get scripture to line up with what they want to believe instead of us lining up our beliefs with what scripture plainly says. |
I agree !!
I have found ONLY one church in all the world, who has done that.
And, God has identified them in the Bible.
| Quote: |
"..man does not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD." |
Matthew 4:4
| Quote: | "...and the COMMON PEOPLE heard Him gladly."
" All scripture is given by inspiration of God......" |
Interesting ....that it says the 'common' people....not the religious leaders, BUT the common people.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 678
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Pastor2022 wrote: | | EXCELLENT POINT! As a pastor myself, I always tell the people I pastor to examine scripturally everything I tell them for themselves. Granted, they have not gone to seminary and studied hermeneutics or Greek or Hebrew as I have done but I have taught them the basics of correct Bible study and interpretation. If people only come to church to be "fed" without daily being "fed" on the Word themselves, they are doing themselves a great disservice and will be starving themselves. Good point! |
That is so refreshing to hear. Not many pastors say that. They tend to think they're the "experts" & their "flock" should listen to "them". That's part of what's gotten the universal church into trouble.
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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james
Lion
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 901
Location: Portland, Ore
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: |
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SS,
I am familiar with the scriptures you gave me, but I didn't see the answer to my question, Where in scripture did Jesus Christ tell believers to keep the 7th day sabbath ?
In the book of Acts it does speak of gathering on the first day of the week, and I am sure you are familiar with those scriptures.
Why is it the priest were able to profane or not keep the Sabbath and yet Christ says they were blameless? |
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ragman13
German Shepherd
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Salvation depends upon Grace. Grace is both a necessary and sufficient condition. All others can only by necessary. Yes there are other things required but without Grace we all get what we deserve and that is death. |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | SS,
I am familiar with the scriptures you gave me, but I didn't see the answer to my question, Where in scripture did Jesus Christ tell believers to keep the 7th day sabbath ? |
Jesus did say it again, in the New Testament, because there was no need to.
Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
There was no such thing as any other day observed, as a day of believer gathering for religious services.
| Quote: |
In the book of Acts it does speak of gathering on the first day of the week, and I am sure you are familiar with those scriptures. |
Yes, I am.
And that gathering was for the purpose of bidding Paul farewell, as they would never see Him again (Acts 20:7, 38)
| Quote: |
Why is it the priest were able to profane or not keep the Sabbath and yet Christ says they were blameless? |
There was the purpse of forgiveness of sins, no matter what day it was.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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