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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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 Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: Truth vs Political Correctness |
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Truth versus political correctness; these two are almost never in accord.
Nobel Peace Prize recipient James Watson (yes I'm speaking positively about an NPP winner) drew a lot of criticism when he suggested that there is an intelligence disparity between blacks and whites. His specific comment was:
| Quote: | | "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really" |
His comment accompanied his dismal prognostication on the future of Africa. He further says:
| Quote: | | "There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so." |
I'm going out on a limb a little by suggesting that he is absolutely correct.....and there is nothing wrong with that. Many studies uncover very unpopular truths, such as the Canadian study that determined that men are more intelligent than women based on I.Q. scores. (while this is true in an academic sense, it's also well known that women excel over men in "emotional intelligence" otherwise known as intuition). It seems people in general are not lovers of the truth, as much as "truth" is brandied about by various rhetoric.
Contrast this to over 100 years ago when Americans thought blacks were overall inferior and more prone to wickedness, illiteracy, and body odor, etc, than whites. (ironically enough because of the conditions they were subjected to). Every generation has a version of political correctness which bears validity to Scripture:
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil, for everyone practicing evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. Jn 3:19,20
Why is it assumed that God made all the races equal in every respect? I ask this question to those who preach diversity but are terrified of it. Blacks dominate the arena of sports, especially basketball. In the 1992 Olympics, our "dream team" of mostly blacks beat teams all over the world by spectacular margins. There's no doubt that blacks have the upper hand in physical prowess, and it's no coincidence that blacks have taken the lead in heavy-weight boxing as well.
So why the need for them to also be equal in the halls of academia? Are whites not allowed to excel in certain categories as well? What about Latinos that excel in flair? Or orientals that excel in craft? Or Pacific Islanders (my race) that excel in gaity? Is it really so terrible that God gave us different strengths and weaknesses so that mankind would not be smitten with monotony?
In my own intellectual "walkabout" I have come to embrace and love truth above all. I shun the warped and slanted bellows of political correctness and the dreaded court of public opinion. I dare to speak the truth, especially when it contrasts popular beliefs. Should this not be the drive of all Christians?
Ex umbris et imaginibus in veritatum
(From shadows and appearances into truth....inscribed on the tomb of Cardinal Newman) |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | He went on to say that although he hoped everyone was equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true". |
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: |
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I didn't see that quote, but I really don't find myself in agreement with that statement.
In the workplace motivation more often trumps innate talent, and a certain degree of intelligence will always accompany motivation. I never went to college, but my intelligence has been rated among the highest of college grads (military testing) and this is because I am always reading and learning. I'm motivated to increase my knowledge and that has more to do with my current acumen than my race.
His statements have more to do with a general cerebral disparity between blacks and whites, and even though this is an established fact in America, his comments were based on Africa where a 12 year old can just as easily be carrying an AK-47 as he would a spelling primer. Another problem he might be touching on is that all the effort we have put into teaching about the dangers of AIDS and providing condoms has wrought little change. In America, we are very saavy of STDs and have taken warning, but the lesson doesn't sink in in Africa. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Watson's view of intelligence is biased like so many others who proclaim high I.Q. scores. Intelligence is far from totally understood even by those brilliant enough to study it in the laboratory.
The so called IQ tests are highly biased toward spatial abilities and pattern recognition tasks and intelligence is far more diverse than that. I would rather say that nothing really can be said truthfully about intelligence based on those tests except that the writers of those tests approve of a certain kind of intelligence over other kinds of intelligence.
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Hey Boss,
I'm not sure if I agree with that. IQ measures far more than accumulation of knowledge, it measures our ability to learn, to apply critical thinking, problem solving, situation assessment, math solution, logic, literacy etc. It can be said that mental acumen is measured in every way possible. People who are truly simple will score very low on this, although it's still possible for them to score higher in wisdom and common sense. Those two traits do not discriminate.
Why is it so hard for people to believe that not everyone is smart? And why does everyone have to be smart? |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: |
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If you re read my post I never suggested that accumulating facts/knowledge is the same as IQ, and yes some people are smarter than others. However there are several different types of intelligence, and our society does not value them equally. Those IQ tests can only examine a couple of them and the rest are left on the testing room floor.
I have met too many Mensa members whose lives are a mess and who, even with their high IQ, have no common sense at all.
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Why is it assumed that God made all the races equal in every respect? I ask this question to those who preach diversity but are terrified of it. Blacks dominate the arena of sports, especially basketball. In the 1992 Olympics, our "dream team" of mostly blacks beat teams all over the world by spectacular margins. There's no doubt that blacks have the upper hand in physical prowess, and it's no coincidence that blacks have taken the lead in heavy-weight boxing as well.
So why the need for them to also be equal in the halls of academia? Are whites not allowed to excel in certain categories as well? What about Latinos that excel in flair? Or orientals that excel in craft? Or Pacific Islanders (my race) that excel in gaity? Is it really so terrible that God gave us different strengths and weaknesses so that mankind would not be smitten with monotony? |
I used to watch basketball..when Larry Bird ruled the court LOL..He made it into the "hall of fame" too.
Maybe the differences weren't made for monotony's sake, but rather for the whole body to learn to accept differences in eachother and be satisified with what we are and how we fit into the "BIG" picture and not worrying about how others fit or don't fit in.
God made the diversities in race creed languages weeknesses and strengths..
anytime we look up or down at another are we not judging God for his creative ability?
It's bad enough we question why we are who we are..I think it's worse when we question why others are made the way they were.
It all sums up in the discussion about the whole body being fitly joined together. And the hand saying to the foot I have no need of thee..
God made the body..every detail..for a purpose.
Maybe so that through diversity we would eventually see how we are all basically the same. Equal in strengths and weeknesses ourselves, so that we would learn to appreciate and love each other for our differences rather than hold it against each other.
We are all superior and inferior when comparing ourselves to others. Some have more of this, others more of that..but together it all balances if we are willing to take the time and see it.
yeah, common sense..where did it go?
that's what I'd like to know...
I think it took a leave of absence..that's not good.. 
hugs
lone
saintmichael wrote:
| Quote: | | Why is it so hard for people to believe that not everyone is smart? And why does everyone have to be smart? |
why does being dumb offend people?
do they feel they have to carry more of the burden because their "smarter"? Do they feel it's unfair that they have to come up with "all" the answers.. 
Maybe they feel they have to work harder?
I don't know, I see some pretty dumb people work smarter and some pretty smart people who work dumber.
All I know is that we are all "special" in God's eyes.. 
hugs again..and more hugs..I love hugs.. 
hugs
lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Plotinus
Lion King
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1046
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Truth vs Political Correctness |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: |
Nobel Peace Prize recipient James Watson (yes I'm speaking positively about an NPP winner) drew a lot of criticism when he suggested that there is an intelligence disparity between blacks and whites.
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Let us get the facts right first. James Watson won the Nobel Prize in 1962 for being the co-discoverer of the double helix model of DNA. This is the Nobel Prize in Medicine, not Peace. He is not considered an expert on peace issues. Nor is he considered an expert on cognitive psychology. Nor is he considered an expert on race, gender or other branches of the social sciences.
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I'm going out on a limb a little by suggesting that he is absolutely correct.....and there is nothing wrong with that. Many studies uncover very unpopular truths, such as the Canadian study that determined that men are more intelligent than women based on I.Q. scores.
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I wonder which Canadian study you are referring to. There was an infamous study down the road from me some years ago. Please provide a reference. I am very happy to discuss the ins and outs of race, gender and IQ testing. Such a debate needs to address some technical issues, obviously, such as the difference between correlation and causation, and the role of confounding in statistical analysis.
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One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.
Heraclitus, fragment 45, quoted in Diogenes Laertius 9.7. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Plotinus,
The study was concluded in September of last year. It was conducted at the University of Western Ontario by J. Phillippe Rushton. The study analyzed over 100,000 SAT tests and found that males consistantly scored 3.63 IQ points more than their female counterparts.
This shouldn't be too difficult to google.
And now these three remain, faith, hope, and charity. The greatest of these is charity. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Wow | Quote: | The study analyzed over 100,000 SAT tests and found that males consistantly scored 3.63 IQ points more than their female counterparts.
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The SAT is not an IQ test by the way. The SAT supposedly measures ability to succeed in college and it is disputed by reasonable experts.
3.63 points out of 1600 (the top score on the SAT) that margin is so small as to become trivial about .22%! The officially recognized margin of error is higher than that.
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My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
Read the
www.Christian-Thinktank.com |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Let me ask the skeptics here, is it not possible that God created genders and races with different strengths and weaknesses, so that we can compliment each other? Why is that such a hard truth to face?
Men are smarter than women when it comes to abstract knowledge, math, science, engineering, etc. So what? God endowed us with such abilities so we can build societies and protect our families. I've already made the case that women excel in emotional intelligence...that is the way people relate. We men can be complete dunces compared to the sharp perceptions of our female counterparts. God made them that way to raise children and keep us men in check. So what?
The point of this thread is how people prefer comfortable lies to the truth, and how that is inconsistant with Christianity.
Blessed be God forever |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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There are ways of telling the truth that are designed to hurt our fellow humans and there are lies that protect others from unnecessary hurt.
Political correctness is designed to shield others from perceived hurt that those harsh truths may injure. There should be some balance between shielding others from hurting others (for political reasons) and forcing the truths down others throats when the truth we so easily proclaim may only be our opinion.
There are times here in this forum when opinions are spread as though they were truth to the harm of others.
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My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Extolling the virtues of political correctness? Are you kidding?
Most recently political correctness allowed an overzealous prosecutor to witchhunt some white boys because they were accused of rape by a black woman. Now it turns out these men were completely innocent and the prosecutor is guilty of several breaches of ethic in his handling of the case. It would seem that white males are guilty until proven innocent.
Those that love political correctness have no problem with this arrangement. After all, white men really are evil and their only purpose is to subjegate women, minorities, and gays, right? So a little payback is forthcoming. This is why whenever a white police officer is forced to shoot a minority subject the charge of racism is abruptly levied. The officer is already half convicted before the facts even come out, all because of his race.
Contrast that to several decades ago when the reverse was true. Tom Robinson in "To Kill a Mockingbird" is a startling example of how one can be convicted by political correctness. I choose to see the bigotry ugliness of both eras as inexcusable.
Political correctness has no virtues. It's author is satan, and it's goal is the prevalence of wickedness. You're right in saying it shield's people from the truth, but somehow you see the truth as a threat. I don't.
It hurts no one to let them know they have strengths and weaknesses. There is this movement in schools called "outcome based education" in which nobody is ever failed, and nobody's achievements are ever recognized. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, after all. This does children no good at all as they are not encouraged to be competitive or prepared for the harsh realities of life.
No woman is hurt by being told that women score a little less on SAT's. Nor are any blacks hurt by the knowledge that I.Q. is a little lacking. This is an average assessment not to be applied on an individual basis, as there are geniuses among women and blacks, and simpletons among men and whites.
The tide has changed. No more do we consider whites superior to blacks. Now just the opposite is true. We want blacks to be equal to whites in intelligence, yet we want them to excel in athletics as well. Have your cake and eat it too. This makes them superior. At the heart of this is racism, and the idea of racial superiority has killed millions in the 20th century.
The truth is, God endowed us all with different strengths. This hurts nobody except for the schemes of satan to cause strife and bloodshed between races and genders. And I still maintain that political correctness is at variance with Christianity.
In the Immaculate Heart of Mary |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Still there are ways of telling someone the truth without hurting their feelings.
If they are just about to fall off a cliff, first grab them and pull them away and then show them the cliff, 99% of the time errors are not emergencies.
_________________
My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
Read the
www.Christian-Thinktank.com |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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45,
You're right, it's all in the delivery. I'll agree to that.
Faith. Hope. Love. |
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