The mark of the beast

Deege · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: The mark of the beast

I've heard of the mark of the beast being a literal mark, and of it being a code to point to Nero, however I recently came across an explanation I hadn't heard of before.

Basically, the explanation was one of numerology, of which Revelation is full of.
Take 7 to be full, perfect, holy etc. and then that means that 6 represents falling short of that. 3 represents the heavenly realm.
Therefore, the mark of the beast (666) signifies a heavenly being (hence the triple repetition) that is unholy, imperfect and so on.

What do you guys think of that?

Zathrus · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:23 am Post subject:

Is that possible? A heavenly being that is imperfect or unholy?

Are you sure Revelation is full of numerology? Certain numbers had meanings in old testament prophetic writings, and Revelation makes references to them, as it does to a multitude of old testament prophecies. There's some numerology in there, sure.

Zathrus · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:23 am Post subject:

BTW, welcome Deege.

Deege · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the welcome!

Perhaps heavenly isn't the right word. Spiritual, perhaps, would be better. Also, I think but I'm not sure that all numerical references should be taken symbolically and not literally.

45degreeN · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:55 am Post subject:

DEEGE you have stepped into a big can of worms, I hope you realize this. (welcome by the way)

Identifying the mark of the beast has been going on now for ages it seems. There are many different ways to interpret it but I choose "the mark" that is identifiable and seen based upon technology that is now available, or possibly even something called RFID which while it cant be seen per se, is in fact a device implanted in the person's body and used for identification.

(RFID is Radio Frequency Identification) and is increasingly being used in retail situations for scanning products at the store and/or in warehouses. A "chip" about the size of a grain of rice is used that contains all the identification information (up to 100k bytes now) and while it is hard to see if it is implanted yet serves the purpose of the "mark of the beast" scenario.

That is my speculation though and not scripture. I do try and keep an open mind though.

As far as numerology is concerned so much of our modern day numerology is bogus. The ancient numerology is based upon the fact that the letters and numbers were identical and can only be understood by context. Both Hebrew and Greek have this characteristic but not English. Many foolish people go around interpreting English words in the same manner as the Greek and they prove their ignorance by doing so.

Concerning Emperor Nero, he wan an Evil human and may have been possessed by Demonic forces but does that mean he was "the anti-Christ" no.

Balance is required in venturing into this subject matter something that some people seem to lack, or dont care to use. We can go far too far in our speculations when we focus too much on either the spiritualizing or physicalizing of these markers.

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: Re: The mark of the beast

lone-traveler · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject:

Hey Silver Spock Surfer!! cool!

I believe 6 refers to man too...
but what man?
I was doing a study on foreheads...interesting..long, but interesting:

Exd 28:36 ¶ And thou shalt make a plate [of] pure gold, and grave upon it, [like] the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
Exd 28:37 And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be.
Exd 28:38 And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD.

Aaron bears the iniquity of the holy things which the children of Israel hallow. And this engraving is put upon his forehead to bear for them that they may be accepted.

whats a mitre?
1) turban (of the high priest)
also it says..diadem..

Job 29:14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment [was] as a robe and a diadem.

Isa 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

Isa 62:3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.

Eze 21:24 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, [I say], that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.
Eze 21:25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity [shall have] an end,
Eze 21:26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this [shall] not [be] the same: exalt [him that is] low, and abase [him that is] high.
Eze 21:27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no [more], until he come whose right it is; and I will give it [him].

Jer 3:1 ¶ They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.
Jer 3:2 Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whredoms and with thy wickedness.
Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whre's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
Jer 3:4 Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou [art] the guide of my youth?
Jer 3:5 Will he reserve [his anger] for ever? will he keep [it] to the end? Behold, thou hast spoken and done evil things as thou couldest.
Jer 3:6 ¶ The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen [that] which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
Jer 3:7 And I said after she had done all these [things], Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw [it].
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Jer 3:9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jer 3:10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Eze 16:10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
Eze 16:11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
Eze 16:12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
Eze 16:13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment [was of] fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
Eze 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it [was] perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 16:15 ¶ But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
Eze 16:16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: [the like things] shall not come, neither shall it be [so].

Eze 16:17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whredom with them,
Eze 16:18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.

Eze 16:23 ¶ And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD;)
Eze 16:24 [That] thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street.
Eze 16:25 Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whredoms.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Exd 28:36 ¶ And thou shalt make a plate [of] pure gold, and grave upon it, [like] the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
Exd 28:38 And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD.

Aaron was made to bear the iniquity of the children of Israel. He bore it.

coming back to this verse:
Eze 21:24 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, [I say], that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.

How is it that they made their iniquities to be remembered?

If you were blind you would have no sin, but now you say we see, therefore your sin remains?

1Sa 17:49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang [it], and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.

Aaron took their sins upon himself...

Act 7:37 ¶ This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Act 7:39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust [him] from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
Act 7:40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for [as for] this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
Act 7:41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

Act 7:51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.
Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept [it].
Act 7:54 ¶ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with [their] teeth.

Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Rev 12:7 ¶ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Act 7:54 ¶ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with [their] teeth.
Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
Act 7:58 And cast [him] out of the city, and stoned [him]: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

just studying the forehead and diadems and marks in the hands and forehead...

6 is the number of a man...is it the kingdom of man?

just thinkin..
hugs
lone

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject:

lone-traveler · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject:

what about pride?
is that in the forehead too?

You think the name written on Aarons forehead and the name written on the beasts forehead shows how Israel had fallen "short" of God's glory?

hugs
lone

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject:

faithintheunseen · Newbie Alert Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 3

For starters, I think we sometimes feel we have to understand everything about God and what his thinking implies.

We could never know the ways of God with our human brains. Have you ever tried to understand what eternity is? Can you really definite it? Nope, no one can because our thinking is based on beginnings and endings. We feel the need to try and use science and other things to "get all the answers."

Don't forget we also have free will to use as we please. So we all do dictate what we do. With that said, then how could God know what's going to happen with all of us next if we dictate it ourselves? Well, that just goes back to the beginning statement I made. We can't even begin to understand the mind or ways of God.

Silver Surfer · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:21 am Post subject: