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JonMarie
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Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 746
Location: Pa.
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 Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: The life of King Saul |
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I have been for awhile, wanting to do a study on the life of King Saul. Anyone interested?
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Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. |
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ShardikSon
Bear Cub
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 613
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: The life of King Saul |
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| JonMarie wrote: | | I have been for awhile, wanting to do a study on the life of King Saul. Anyone interested? |
I'm in.
_________________
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"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. “- Mohandas Gandhi
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I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 746
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, ShardikSon, I missed a few days. Do you want to start in 1 Samuel 8? And perhaps read and comment on a chapter a day? Unless you feel that there is something preceding 1 Sam 8 that may pertain to King Saul or would you prefer a different time frame?
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Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. |
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ShardikSon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Good place to start, I agree.
This sets the stage.
_________________
-----------
"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. “- Mohandas Gandhi
--------------------
I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 746
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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thanks!
_________________
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 746
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 1 Sam 8:
7And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
9Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. |
It looks to me as if the Lord is appointing a harsh king as a kind of punishment ( but in the hope that the people would return to serving God) because the people forsook God to serve other Gods. Like history repeating itself, in that Israel in the days of plenty in Egypt forsook God and then came under the bondage of the Egyptians.
(I can't help but notice the parallels to our country and the time we are living in.)
Also, I am perplexed why Samuel, hearing Gods voice and having fellowship with God, did not restrain his own sons from evil, but I suppose that is another study.
_________________
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. |
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ShardikSon
Bear Cub
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 613
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| JonMarie wrote: | | Quote: | 1 Sam 8:
7And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
9Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. |
It looks to me as if the Lord is appointing a harsh king as a kind of punishment ( but in the hope that the people would return to serving God) because the people forsook God to serve other Gods. Like history repeating itself, in that Israel in the days of plenty in Egypt forsook God and then came under the bondage of the Egyptians.
(I can't help but notice the parallels to our country and the time we are living in.)
Also, I am perplexed why Samuel, hearing Gods voice and having fellowship with God, did not restrain his own sons from evil, but I suppose that is another study. |
Well, that was part of it.
Before Samuel, the priest were the same way. Samuel was righteous, but after him his sons were not, and the people lay blame on them for their sinfulness.
"See, God, how can you expect us to be right when these priests and judges are as evil as are we? "
But, now, if we had a king to lead us, we would have a leader like all those other nations. We could then be righteous.
So God lays out what a king will cost them, and of course they accept that. They are really looking for someone to bear the responsibility for them, I think.
Picking up at v. 18 | Quote: | ...
18And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
19Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
20That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.
21And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.
22And the LORD said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.
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I am reminded of a quote attributed to Voltaire:
| Quote: | | Every nation gets the government it deserves. |
_________________
-----------
"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. “- Mohandas Gandhi
--------------------
I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 746
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Well, that was part of it.
Before Samuel, the priest were the same way. Samuel was righteous, but after him his sons were not, and the people lay blame on them for their sinfulness.
"See, God, how can you expect us to be right when these priests and judges are as evil as are we? "
But, now, if we had a king to lead us, we would have a leader like all those other nations. We could then be righteous. |
I hadn't read that part, it must have preceded. Wow! Excellent points! Looks like they are blaming others like Adam blamed Eve.
What gov't do you think our nation deserves?
_________________
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 746
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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From 1 Sam 9
9(Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)
Interesting to know, what was called a seer then, is now called a Prophet, and what is now called a seer is usually associated with the demonic realm.
17And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people.
20And as for thine asses that were lost three days ago, set not thy mind on them; for they are found. And on whom is all the desire of Israel? Is it not on thee, and on all thy father's house?
Obviously God orchestrated the circumstances to bring Saul to Samuel.
21And Saul answered and said, Am not I a Benjamite, of the smallest of the tribes of Israel? and my family the least of all the families of the tribe of Benjamin? wherefore then speakest thou so to me?
This is clear that God chose Saul to be king, and to reign over His people.
Shardikson, I think it is noteworthy that Saul expresses his unworthiness, similar to that of Moses' protests. Perhaps another qualification for a leader?
23And Samuel said unto the cook, Bring the portion which I gave thee, of which I said unto thee, Set it by thee.
24And the cook took up the shoulder, and that which was upon it, and set it before Saul. And Samuel said, Behold that which is left! set it before thee, and eat: for unto this time hath it been kept for thee since I said, I have invited the people. So Saul did eat with Samuel that day.
It seems that the cook was marvelling that Samuel had prepared for his visitors.
27And as they were going down to the end of the city, Samuel said to Saul, Bid the servant pass on before us, (and he passed on), but stand thou still a while, that I may shew thee the word of God.
Samuel reveals to Saul privately, what God revealed to Samuel.
One other point, the people appeared to be in fear of threat of war and looked to an army for protection instead of God.The Philistines had a reputation for being exceedingly cruel and ruthless barbarians.
16 To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me.
_________________
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. |
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ShardikSon
Bear Cub
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 613
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | One other point, the people appeared to be in fear of threat of war and looked to an army for protection instead of God.The Philistines had a reputation for being exceedingly cruel and ruthless barbarians.
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I guess then we have to go back to look at the preface to this.
Israel was at war with the Philistines (again) and in 1 Samuel 4, we see where they are defeated at Ebenezer, and decide to bring the Ark to the battle, in hopes that the Ark will assist them in defeating the enemy.
They have now idolized the very symbol of the covenant, rather than ask God to help them. That is how far they have drifted from Him.
So, the Ark falls into the hands of the enemy, who after being vexed by God for a few months, decide to give it back.
It is here that they realize just how foolish the leadership they have can be, and this is the background for them wanting a King.
The Philistines seemed to own the iron working technology of the time, while the other nations were basically bronze age. There was a mention elsewhere that they permitted no other nation in the area to own iron making technology. So this would be analogous to the Nazi Wehrmacht superiority over the Polish army in the 1930's.
_________________
-----------
"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. “- Mohandas Gandhi
--------------------
I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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ShardikSon
Bear Cub
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 613
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Obviously God orchestrated the circumstances to bring Saul to Samuel.
21And Saul answered and said, Am not I a Benjamite, of the smallest of the tribes of Israel? and my family the least of all the families of the tribe of Benjamin? wherefore then speakest thou so to me?
This is clear that God chose Saul to be king, and to reign over His people.
Shardikson, I think it is noteworthy that Saul expresses his unworthiness, similar to that of Moses' protests. Perhaps another qualification for a leader? |
I believe so. The people God chose to do his work were almost ALWAYS humble, and thought they were unqualified for the task, but they obeyed, and trusted in him.
_________________
-----------
"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. “- Mohandas Gandhi
--------------------
I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 746
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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I confess, my knowledge of the OT is exceedingly limited at this time, I very much appreciate your insights and the benefit of your knowledge in this area. I look forward to hearing your comments on the next chapters.
_________________
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Last edited by JonMarie on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ShardikSon
Bear Cub
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 613
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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I am still learning, myself.
This is a good exercise for the both of us.
And after my last post, I went on the the next couple of chapters.
From the time the philistines captured and then returned the Ark to the time that the the people demanded a King was many years, but all the while they were in and out of war with the Philistines.
_________________
-----------
"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. “- Mohandas Gandhi
--------------------
I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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| Back to top |
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ShardikSon
Bear Cub
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 613
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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This is a puzzle, here.
| Quote: | 1 Samuel 10 v. 10-12
10And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.
11And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?
12And one of the same place answered and said, But who is their father? Therefore it became a proverb, Is Saul also among the prophets? |
This is after Saul follows the directions given to him by Samuel, and he meets up with the group of prophets.
_________________
-----------
"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. “- Mohandas Gandhi
--------------------
I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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| Back to top |
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JonMarie
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 746
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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from 1 Sam 10
6And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
Be turned into another man, a prophet of God.
7And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee. 8And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do. 9And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
Saul knew God had given him a new heart, and had given him signs.15And Saul's uncle said, Tell me, I pray thee, what Samuel said unto you.
ShardikSon, was Saul told to withhold all Samuel told him until the formal announcement came?16And Saul said unto his uncle, He told us plainly that the asses were found. But of the matter of the kingdom, whereof Samuel spake, he told him not.
22Therefore they enquired of the LORD further, if the man should yet come thither. And the LORD answered, Behold he hath hid himself among the stuff.
I suppose it is a big leap from a small community to become the king of Israel. Yet Saul did prophetize.
26And Saul also went home to Gibeah; and there went with him a band of men, whose hearts God had touched.
God also gave Saul a support team.
_________________
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. |
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