Do the laws Moses wrote carry less weight?

Zathrus

In Christianity, the 10 commandments are given special honor among all the commandments. They are without argument just and righteous principles.

But when the Big 10 were given to Israel at Mt Sinai, a multitude of other commandments were given by God also. Now the new testament teaches that the law is part of the old covenant, and passed away with the old covenant. But teachings exist today that seek to prove that parts of the law still are in effect for Christians today. Some of these teachings draw a line of delineation between the 10 commandments and the rest, pointing out that the rest were penned by Moses, who undisputedly was just a sinful man like all of us, though chosen for a special purpose by God.

I think we would benefit from looking closely at whether such a teaching is scripturally tenable before simply dismissing every command given to Moses as having no relevance. If the law was meant to be taken as a whole, with either all of it including the Big 10 and the rest being in effect, or none of it being in effect, it would be a great error to try to divide it and say various parts of it remain(ed) in effect until various times.

Pardon thses long quotes.
Leviticus 18

lone-traveler · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject:

Hi Zathrus,

I found a page that explains how I believe the law and faith work hand in hand.

www.thelivingsword.com

the song of Moses and the Lamb...
It explains it better than I do.

God Bless
Lone

(edited url..)
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

MoJo · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject:

Slightly of the intent of your thread, Zathrus, but I found the following today and this seems like a good place to post it. Many had argued that man was under the law or at least some of the law before Mt Sinai;

Deu 5:1 ¶ And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD **made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us,** [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.

Moses then starts with the ten commandments plus

Very Happy

_________________
matt 6: 34 "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

lone-traveler · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject:

from the website above:

Abraham's High Faith
Now someone might say, "But if we cast out THE BONDWOMEN AND HER CHILDREN, if we cast out THE LAWS OF JERUSALEM BELOW, then we must cast out THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, And THAT WOULD NOT BE RIGHT TO DO, FOR OUR LORD SAID THAT WE MUST KEEP THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (see Matt. 19:16-19)."

To some of this statement, the scriptures say, you are absolutely right!!! For THE TEN COMMANDMENTS MUST BE RECEIVED AND KEPT!!!.

The apostles themselves tell us that. For it is written,

"Children, obey your parents IN THE LORD: for this is right. HONOUR THY FATHER AND MOTHER; WHICH IS THE FIRST COMMANDMENTS WITH PROMISE; that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth." Eph.6:1-3, Exodus 20:12

Here we see BEYOND A DOUBT, THAT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE TO BE KEPT. For the apostles themselves tell us that.

But we must understand, that those who are of THE BONDWOMAN, THOSE WHO ARE OF JERUSALEM BELOW, "NEVER RECEIVED THE TEN COMMANDMENTS!!!"

For example we just saw that one of the commandments say: HONOUR THY FATHER AND MOTHER.

Now how can those who are of THE MOTHER JERUSALEM BELOW, HONOUR THE MOTHER JERUSALEM ABOVE, WHEN THEY HAVE NOT BEEN BORN OF THE MOTHER JERUSALEM ABOVE?

How can someone HONOUR THEIR MOTHER, WHEN IN TRUTH, IT IS NOT THEIR MOTHER?

How can someone HONOUR A MOTHER WHOM THEY WILL NOT RECEIVE AS A MOTHER?

Let us look closely at THE FIRST OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. For it is written,

"I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of THE LAND OF EGYPT, OUT OF THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE. Thou shalt have no other god's before me." Exodus 20:2-3

Now we know, that Exodus 20:2-3, is in the time of Moses.

BUT LET US LOOK!!! For as we know, ABRAHAM, AND SARAH, AND AGAR, WERE WAY BEFORE THE TIME OF EXODUS 20:2-3.

And what did the apostle Paul tell us that AGAR (THE EGYPTIAN WOMEN) REPRESENTED? "THE BONDWOMAN"!!!

And what did the apostle Paul tell us about her children? THEY WHERE BORN AFTER THE FLESH, AND THEY PERSECUTE THOSE WHO ARE BORN SPIRITUALLY (Gal. 4:29).

Now we know to be BORN AFTER THE FLESH IS TO BE CARNAL. And we know that THE LAW (the ten commandments included because that is the Law to be kept) IS NOT CARNAL, BUT SPIRITUAL!!! For it is written,

"For we know THAT THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal sold under sin. " Rom.7:14

And we know THAT THE CARNAL CHILDREN CANNOT ENTER THE SPIRITUAL LAW (the ten commandments included because that is the law to be kept). For it is written in Romans 8:5-8,

"For they that are after the flesh (born of the flesh) do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit (born of the Spirit) the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Romans 8:5-8

So, when our Holy Lord God was giving them THE TEN COMMANDMENTS in Exodus (which Law is to be kept by the heavenly Spiritual Christians, see Eph.6:1-3), when our Holy Lord God was telling them that He was going to BRING THEM OUT OF THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE, OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, was our Holy Lord God referring TO THE BONDAGE OF AGAR AND HER HOUSE?

YES!!! But how do we know that? Because the Lord said to Moses (before He gave him the ten commandments), that He (the Lord) was going to give them THE COVENANT, THE PROMISE, THAT HE GAVE TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB. For it is written in Exodus 6:1-8,

"Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.

Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, (as we know, our Lord is THE ARM, see Isa.53:1. and OUR LORD IS the redemption (see 1 Cor. 1:30), AND THE STRETCHED OUT ARM, IS THE IMMORTAL HEAVENLY SPIRITUAL WORDS OF HIS CROSS see John 6:63) and with great judgments: And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD."

Here we see that our Holy Lord God, WAS going to bring them into THE HEAVENLY SPIRITUAL COVENANT, THE HEAVENLY SPIRITUAL TEN COMMANDMENTS OF OUR MOTHER JERUSALEM ABOVE, SO THAT THEY COULD BE "SPIRITUALLY MINDED", AND BE ABLE TO "LOOK UP WITH THE EYE OF THEIR MINDS" TO HEAVENLY JERUSALEM'S LAWS, LIKE ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB DID (see Hebrews 11:10).

But they lost THIS HEAVENLY SPIRITUAL LIFE GIVING COVENANT, for when they made and worshipped a golden calf's head, after the fashion of Apis, whom they had seen worshipped in Egypt; Moses came down and broke the two tables of stone written by the finger of God. And so they lost THE HEAVENLY SPIRITUAL LIFE GIVING COVENANT, THE LIFE GIVING TEN COMMANDMENTS OF JERUSALEM ABOVE, THE MOTHER OF ALL LIVING.

And so, they were not able to come out of THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE, THE BONDAGE OF BEING CARNALLY MINDED IN THE LAW, WHICH IS DEATH ( Roman 8:6).

But for us who are of that heavenly city of Abraham, that one city of faith, we who are of that heavenly Church, heavenly Jerusalem, our Mother wisdom above (as it is written in Hebrews 12:22), we are so thankful for THE LIFE AND PEACE THAT WE HAVE FOUND ( Romans 8:6). And we are now calling all to come to the HIGH FAITH OF ABRAHAM, by declaring to all:

“I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the Lord. Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem. Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together: Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the Lord, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the Lord. For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee. Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces. For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee. Because of the house of the Lord our God I will seek thy good.” Psalm 122:1-9 AMEN
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Zathrus · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject:

lone-traveler · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject:

Act 10:34 ¶ Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

how do you suppose one worketh righteousness?
Are we seeking our own righteousness?

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Now what is God's righteousness?

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.
Psa 119:144 The righteousness of thy testimonies [is] everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live.
Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness.

We are not to seek our own righteousness, we are to seek out God's righteousness.
That means His word comes before ALL else.

Proverbs chapter 2 is a good read.

The first time the Word spoke to us He wrote His commandments in stone and gave them to people who had stone hearts.
The second time the Word spoke He wrote His commandments in our hearts and minds, because the promise of faith which came by Abraham and through circumcision, circumcised our hearts to be able to hear the law.

The law is spiritual and you can not understand it if you are looking at it from a "carnal" point of view.
You have to see what is written under the stone. And this takes faith.

You can't keep the law without it.

From the beginning until the end God says keep my commandments. He doesn't change his mind.
But those who have faith understand that the law is spiritual, and the stone has been removed to see the spiritual truth of those words written therein.

Pro 2:1 ¶ My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, [and] apply thine heart to understanding;
Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, [and] liftest up thy voice for understanding;
Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as [for] hid treasures;
Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

Your stuck in the carnal knowledge Zathrus.....
you only hear the works of the law....listen for the spiritual knowledge...listen for the spiritual wisdom...
The works are those things that come from the heart.

Not the carnal flesh works of the law, but the higher spiritual truth contained in the law.

Jesus gave us examples of how to divide the carniality and the spirituality of the law. The spirit of the law is on a much higher plain than the carnal.

I appreciate and am delighted by being able to see and hear this light and truth that has been hidden by the carnal minds of men. The law is a shadow. It is clouded and dark and covered in stone. Until the veil is removed and the stone brings forth water and is turned into bread.

And then you can divide the carnal and the spiritual, the dark from the light, and see the wisdom and truth and the mercy and love that has been hidden in the stone become unveiled.

And this faith and this unveiling is by the grace of God.
At one time only a few were able to see beneath the stone, but now it has been made available to any who will ask and seek and knock, and with a willing mind and a willing heart and with faith be able to see and hear the truth and wisdom buried like treasure in the law.

Come out of the flesh and carnal way of thinking and search for and walk in the spiritual law.

an example of carnal law versus spiritual law...

1Cr 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
1Cr 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Cr 9:10 Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

This is a spiritual truth beneath every carnal law. You just have to look for it.

God Bless Zathrus
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Zathrus · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:16 am Post subject:

RND · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject:

Zathrus · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:19 am Post subject:

RND · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:33 am Post subject:

Zathrus · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:16 am Post subject:

RND · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject:

Zathrus · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:24 am Post subject:

Fine. I expect you'll only see what you want to see anyway. I expect you'll outright deny scriptural proof if it doesn't agree with Adventist doctrine.
I didn't post these threads imagining that you or your Adventist friends would actually consider anything I wrote. They're for the benefit of those actually looking for the truth. I don't have to prove anything to you.
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!

2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451

RND · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:02 am Post subject:

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA