 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: Biblical Instructions |
 |
|
I'm curious about something:
What does the bible say about how to treat atheists?
I've read verses about fools rejecting God and verses about rejecting God being the one unforgivable sin, but what does it say to do about people like this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Biblical Instructions |
|
|
| Ana wrote: | I'm curious about something:
What does the bible say about how to treat atheists?
I've read verses about fools rejecting God and verses about rejecting God being the one unforgivable sin, but what does it say to do about people like this? |
It says that we're all evil, that there isn't a good one among us, not a one.
I remember hearing that the Koran explicitly tells Muslims that it is their duty to kill anyone who is not grateful to God for their existence, but I'm not sure if the Bible goes this far.
Are Christians explicitly told to kill atheists anywhere in the Bible?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There's at least a one-time instruction to kill anyone that doesn't seek God in 2 Chronicles 15
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | There's at least a one-time instruction to kill anyone that doesn't seek God in 2 Chronicles 15 |
Seems to me that the passage you refer to tells of an oath taken by certain tribes of Israel:
2Ch 15:9 Then he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, as well as those from the tribes of Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon who had settled among them, for they had defected to him from Israel in great numbers when they saw that the LORD his God was with him.
2Ch 15:10 They were gathered in Jerusalem in the third month of the fifteenth year of Asa's reign.
2Ch 15:11 At that time they sacrificed to the LORD 700 cattle and 7,000 sheep from all the plunder they had brought.
2Ch 15:12 Then they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their ancestors with all their mind and all their heart.
2Ch 15:13 Whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel would be put to death, young or old, man or woman.
2Ch 15:14 They took an oath to the LORD in a loud voice, with shouting, with trumpets, and with rams' horns.
2Ch 15:15 All Judah rejoiced over the oath, for they had sworn it with all their mind. They had sought Him with all their heart, and He was found by them. So the LORD gave them rest on every side.
This is what Jesus actually tells us:
Mat 10:11 "When you enter any town or village, find out who is worthy, and stay there until you leave.
Mat 10:12 Greet a household when you enter it,
Mat 10:13 and if the household is worthy, let your peace be on it. But if it is unworthy, let your peace return to you.
Mat 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town.
Mat 10:15 I assure you: It will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow - that Mat 10:15 is scary. It's like a surreal combo of a sermon I attended once about the importance of hospitality and the recurring theme of everyone else paying for the sins of one person.
This verse that you bolded, though, does not apply to all atheists:
| Quote: | | Mat 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town. |
An atheist may welcome you and listen to you, and simply disaree with what you've come to share with him.
A different atheist may be the very picture of all that is described in the above verse. A Christian, too, may fit the above description.
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
Ana's Bananas |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ana wrote: | Wow - that Mat 10:15 is scary. It's like a surreal combo of a sermon I attended once about the importance of hospitality and the recurring theme of everyone else paying for the sins of one person.
This verse that you bolded, though, does not apply to all atheists:
| Quote: | | Mat 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town. |
An atheist may welcome you and listen to you, and simply disaree with what you've come to share with him.
A different atheist may be the very picture of all that is described in the above verse. A Christian, too, may fit the above description. |
Mat 10:14 is referring to the attitude that kingdom messengers should take towards those who don't want what they are teaching. In other words, don't waste your time with people who are not searching for truth.
Jesus taught that God cares about everyone and in particular comes out looking for those who are lost.
" There is more joy in heaven over the return of one sinner then over the good deeds of a thousand righteous people...or something to that effect.
Colter
_________________
Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Colter wrote: |
| Quote: | | Mat 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town. |
|
It's a good thing we scientists don't have the same attitude, or else we wouldn't be trying to teach evolution (i.e. truth) to creationists who don't want to hear it.
But then again, it's not like Christians themselves listen to Mat 10:14; Christianity is an EXTREMELY evangelical religion. Jehovah's Witnesses are a particularly good example of Christians who are OUTRAGEOUSLY persistent and don't want to take no for an answer.
(Funny how they're totally against blood transfusions because of some highly questionable interpretation of scripture, but then they totally ignore Mat 10:14!!!)
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| P1234567890 wrote: | | Colter wrote: |
| Quote: | | Mat 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town. |
|
It's a good thing we scientists don't have the same attitude, or else we wouldn't be trying to teach evolution (i.e. truth) to creationists who don't want to hear it.
But then again, it's not like Christians themselves listen to Mat 10:14; Christianity is an EXTREMELY evangelical religion. Jehovah's Witnesses are a particularly good example of Christians who are OUTRAGEOUSLY persistent and don't want to take no for an answer.
(Funny how they're totally against blood transfusions because of some highly questionable interpretation of scripture, but then they totally ignore Mat 10:14!!!) |
Good point P123....,
a quote:
"What both developing science and religion need is more searching and fearless self-criticism, a greater awareness of incompleteness in evolutionary status. The teachers of both science and religion are often altogether too self-confident and dogmatic. Science and religion can only be self-critical of their facts. The moment departure is made from the stage of facts, reason abdicates or else rapidly degenerates into a consort of false logic."
Because many of my fellow religionists have been afraid of the truth we have failed to grow. Because we have put our faith in (book worship) because it's easier then trusting God and have been brow beaten by the presumed ecclesiastical authority of our own priest class we find ourselves at odds with science; in full flight from reality!
It must also be said that many scientist appear to be motivated by the desire to discredit our faith in God.
Evolution is as obvious to me as stratified rock! The error of religion is that some of us consider every book in our evolution to still be true.  At least science wouldn't rely on old theories that had the earth flat.
Unfortunately the great teachings of Christ have been contaminated by previous doctrines as Jewish converts to Christianity exploited OT teachings in order to transcendentalize the prophets.
Colter
_________________
Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah P... good thing the evolutionists won't take the hint. I just love how they insist on forcing their beliefs on everyone... 
With that sarcastic remark completed, can we please leave the evolution in the evolution vs. creation forum?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | Yeah P... good thing the evolutionists won't take the hint. I just love how they insist on forcing their beliefs on everyone...
|
Evolutionists actually aren't forcing their beliefs on people. They are trying to teach the TRUTH. It just so happens that Christianity is basically just a big search for truth, so evolutionists are giving creationists exactly what they most want: the truth; the creationists unfortunately just don't know it.
| RevJP wrote: |
With that sarcastic remark completed, can we please leave the evolution in the evolution vs. creation forum? |
I think that in this instance evolution is highly relevant given the passage. (For that matter, evolution will probably come up A LOT in the Atheism forum... For example, what is Richard Dawkins' background?)
I agree with you, though; we don't have to dwell on it, so just let me have the last word and let's get back to atheism. 
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Evolution and atheism are related subjects because just like practicing atheist, evolutionist often advance the theory that life is a meaningless accident, a happenstance of molecules commingling to form life.
I happen to believe in evolution, a fostered evolution setting life in motion roughly 550,000,000 years ago on our planet.
In fairness I feel evolutionist must concede that there is more to discover about our evolution, they have yet to establish first cause in evolutionary theory. If there is no first cause then faith in accidental evolution seems even more impossible to believe then faith in God the Father.
The book of Genesis is a relatively recent history beginning with Adam and Eve. The A&E story was likely carried over generations by oral tradition before it was written down. There is evidence in the A&E story itself of pre-Adamic man.
Colter
_________________
Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Colter wrote: | Evolution and atheism are related subjects because just like practicing atheist, evolutionist often advance the theory that life is a meaningless accident, a happenstance of molecules commingling to form life.
|
I don't think we really use the word 'accident'.
But it is an interesting parallel that you draw. Another way of looking at it is that atheists are a proper subset of evolutionists... All atheists believe in evolution.
| Colter wrote: |
I happen to believe in evolution, a fostered evolution setting life in motion roughly 550,000,000 years ago on our planet.
|
Where do you get this number from? I was under the impression that there is evidence for photosynthetic organisms on Earth which is over 3 billion years old...
| Colter wrote: |
In fairness I feel evolutionist must concede that there is more to discover about our evolution, they have yet to establish first cause in evolutionary theory.
|
And we do concede this. Everyone agrees that abiogenesis has CONSIDERABLY less evidence supporting it than evolution does.
| Colter wrote: |
If there is no first cause then faith in accidental evolution seems even more impossible to believe then faith in God the Father.
|
Sure. Obviously life came from *somewhere*.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
P123...,
The "550,000,000" comes from my study of the Urantia Revelation 1934. I'm a long time student of religious movements and specifically the Urantia Book.
http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper58.html
I am aware that ther is an apparent discrepacny between the 550 number and photosynthetic organisms on Earth which appear to be over over 3 billion years old. I've wondered at times if certain organisms arn't common wondererrs of space, migrateing as the result of asteroid activities.
Radiometric dating seems to validate what you have stated. For interested parties I will provide a link to a scientist who is Christian which can provide proof of old earth and explain dating techniques.
http://www.asa3.org/aSA/resources/Wiens.html
Colter
_________________
Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This Urantia stuff reminds me a lot of Scientology... I wonder if that's where L. Ron stole his ideas...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When it comes to sci-fi inspired apologetics, I'm a much bigger fan of this piece.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
