Contridictions...

firegreen · Tadpole Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 16

lets talk about a few things. lucifer was, at one time, an angel
correct? and sin came into existence after eve ate the apple, in the form of original sin and angels do not have free will that man does and heaven is a sinless place right? And lucifer became satan when he attempted to steal the throne of heaven from god. It kind of sounds like a big epic novel not meant to be taken as truth or real events. and this also presents a contridiction so lack and white its ridiculous, yet christians will disregard this or come up with some way of trying to prove it by using other scriptures from the same book out of context.

Religion......Mans most intricate lie-Jason Clark

FFT · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject:

I already shredded this here a while back, and the only people that haven't accepted that the Bible doesn't say anything about Lucifer being Satan are the ones that are way beyond reason anyway.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.

Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

Did you have a point firegreen?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

I do see something odd in your post though...

Not a contradiction per se, but an incongruency to be sure.

You speak of Lucifer's rebellion against God and then of Adam and Eve's sin, and ask the question about when did sin come into existence - apparently not even recognizing the two entirely different ideas.

I'm assuming (and I hate to do that but your lack of any tangible information in your posts leaves me little choice) that you are trying to connect the entrance of sin into the world through Adam and Eve with the exitence of sin through Lucifer's rebellion. I'm assuming you wish to claim a contradiction by this maladjusted connection.

Am I correct or do you have some other unspoken point to make?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog

firegreen · Tadpole Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 16

So, how did an Angel, in a sinless place, without the ability to sin, before sin existed, sin against God and try to take the throne?

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

Ah! Now I see your point.

So, let us establish first if heaven is, or was, sinless...

First let us define sin and then explore the story of Lucifer's rebellion.

Just as a starting point though, where do we see evidence that sin was actually existent or non-existent as a concept before God's creation?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog

sofyst · Tiger Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 830 Location: Tejas

FFT · Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:43 am Post subject:

Well for starters, it's really easy: where does the Bible say that Lucifer is Satan?

I can get into the actual historical context of who Lucifer actually is if you wish, but I have gone over it several times on this forum and CV.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.

Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to.

SealedEternal · Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject:

sofyst · Tiger Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 830 Location: Tejas

Very interesting thoughts. I'm not disagreeing with y'all, or discrediting your view right away. But I just haven't the time to look it up. I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually a Church 'mythology' wherein these two beings are made one...
_________________
simul justus et peccator

the Protestant pub

FFT · Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:23 am Post subject:

knuckle · Young Wolf Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 501

Hi FFT---------

what is CV?

much love--------knuckle

lone-traveler · Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:52 am Post subject:

hi knuckle,
I think FFT is refering to ChristianViewpoints..it's a sister forum to this one.

is that right FFT?

Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

FFT · Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject:

Yep. I've gone over the subject with a fine-toothed comb. As my arguments go it's pretty much the only one I can convince people with — you don't have to stop believing in God when you're convinced by it, so people don't feel so threatened.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.

Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to.

SealedEternal · Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: