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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: Right Wing Conspiracy! |
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How many lies can you glean from these few brief moments with Bill HERE?
I see now where the majority of you get your opinions from... 
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Right Wing Conspiracy! |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | How many lies can you glean from these few brief moments with Bill HERE?
I see now where the majority of you get your opinions from... |
And now we know where you get your opinions from as well!
As bad as Clinton may be, he isn't as slimy as Fox News!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:00 am Post subject: |
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Incidentally, do you believe that the Bush administration did ANYTHING to kill Bin Laden in the eight months between the time they were elected and Sept. 11th?
According to Richard Clark (who really IS a terrorism expert), the Bush administration basically sat on its hands and did nothing). At least Clinton fired some cruise missiles at Osama. That's a whole lot more than Bush ever did. By all accounts, Bush never even read the urgent memos that had titles on them like, "Bin Laden plans to attack United States."
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Plus it would seem that he's died on his own. I haven't been keeping up though.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Nice dodge P123! You ducked the facts of the post most splendidly, and added a suave diversion as well...
I'm very impressed, you would do well in Hillary's cabinet....
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Right Wing Conspiracy! |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | How many lies can you glean from these few brief moments with Bill HERE?
I see now where the majority of you get your opinions from... |
You know, Fox has gone all out trying to remove every unedited copy of that from Youtube. They haven't done this with any of the other Fox stuff that's on there, so it can't be a copyright issue. And they only ever showed the unedited version once, all the versions since cut right to where Clinton gets angry at the interviewer without showing the conversation leading to it (where the interviewer is basically a gigantic douche).
That you're linking this as if it proves a point in your favor is just yet another example of your methodological failure to fact check.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | Nice dodge P123! You ducked the facts of the post most splendidly, and added a suave diversion as well...
I'm very impressed, you would do well in Hillary's cabinet.... |
Basically, you guys are just going to believe what you want to believe about Clinton regardless of what actually happened.
Incidentally, exactly which facts did I dodge? As far as I can tell, Trinity's original post was a (fairly short) two-line opinion. Where are these facts that I 'dodged'?
Why do you hate Clinton so much? It's not like he's an atheist or something!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Right Wing Conspiracy! |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | How many lies can you glean from these few brief moments with Bill HERE?
I see now where the majority of you get your opinions from... |
You know, Fox has gone all out trying to remove every unedited copy of that from Youtube. They haven't done this with any of the other Fox stuff that's on there, so it can't be a copyright issue. And they only ever showed the unedited version once, all the versions since cut right to where Clinton gets angry at the interviewer without showing the conversation leading to it (where the interviewer is basically a gigantic douche).
That you're linking this as if it proves a point in your favor is just yet another example of your methodological failure to fact check. |
Are you kidding me... I watched the entire thing... he comes unhinged almost immediately, starts with 'read the Richard Clark book' song and dance (which actually contradicts what he was saying to begin with) and the tone of the interview is consitent with what 'you-tube' has posted here. Pathetic.
What I would really like to see is how he was acting when walking out the studio with his aids. Reports state he was acting like a two year old who didn't get an afternoon nap. 
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Are you kidding me... I watched the entire thing... he comes unhinged almost immediately, starts with 'read the Richard Clark book' song and dance (which actually contradicts what he was saying to begin with) and the tone of the interview is consitent with what 'you-tube' has posted here. Pathetic. |
Again, methodological failure to fact check. This is getting tiring, Trinity1. Here's the full transcript of the interview and Here's the first part of the interview.
I copied the text of the interview up until Clinton first mentioned Richard Clarke and counted how many words were in it (after removing the CLINTON: and WALLACE: clarifications).
1,188 words. Yeah, he starts with "'read the Richard Clarke book' song and dance" 
So, are you just lying or did you just fail to fact check again?
I mean, did you not even notice this? | FFT wrote: | | And they only ever showed the unedited version once, all the versions since cut right to where Clinton gets angry at the interviewer without showing the conversation leading to it (where the interviewer is basically a gigantic douche). |
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | I copied the text of the interview up until Clinton first mentioned Richard Clarke and counted how many words were in it (after removing the CLINTON: and WALLACE: clarifications).
1,188 words. Yeah, he starts with "'read the Richard Clarke book' song and dance"
So, are you just lying or did you just fail to fact check again? |
Well bless your little heart FFT for copying the text of the interview. After throwing Bill a few 'softballs', Wallace asks a question he is normally not use too... you know, questions from CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN..., and he doesn't even let Wallace finish the question before coming apart. So please... don't give me this 'fact check' crap when I watched the interview myself... the whole interview... and am not dependent upon some website to tell me what happened or what the 'facts' of the interview are.
I count three reponses that contain full sentences (meaning he was actually trying to give an excuse for what happened... or in this case... didn't happen) that deal with this subject... before Clark's name comes up. If you want to defend his actions... go right on ahead...
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Trinity, how on Earth can you attack Clinton and not attack Bush?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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P123 how on earth can you attack Bush and NOT attack Clinton?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | P123 how on earth can you attack Bush and NOT attack Clinton? |
I DO attack Clinton. I think it was bad that he destroyed that pharmaceutical factory in the Sudan. I also think it was bad that he cheated on his wife with an intern. I also think it's bad that he can't seem to keep his hands off of other women. I also think it's bad that he lied under oath.
He also didn't do enough for the environment as president.
I'm no fan of Clinton's. For example, I wouldn't have voted for him.
But I like to think that I've got a reasonable perspective on this issue. As bad as Clinton was, his administration wasn't even close to as evil as the Bush administration.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | I count three reponses that contain full sentences (meaning he was actually trying to give an excuse for what happened... or in this case... didn't happen) that deal with this subject... before Clark's name comes up. |
| Quote: | Fox News Sunday, Interview With President Bill Clinton, 9/22/06 (Rough Transcript)
WALLACE: In a recent issue of the New Yorker you say you’re sixty years old and you’re worried about how many lives you can save…Is that what drives you in your effort to help?
CLINTON: Yes. That sounds sort of morbid. The tone in which I said was almost whimsical and humorous. This is what I love to do it’s what I think I should do. I’ve had a wonderful. I got to be president. I’ve lived the life of my dreams. I dodged a bullet with that health thing. I think I owe it to my fellow countrymen and people around the world to help save lives and help people see the future. But as it happens I love it. I feel it’s a great gift. I feel it’s a rewarding way to spend my life.
WALLACE: Someone asked you …he asked you if you could do more good as a former president than as a president and you said only if I live a long time.
CLINTON: Yea that’s true.
WALLACE: how do you compare the powers of being in office and what you can do out of office?
CLINTON: When you’re president you can operate on broader scope. You can simultaneously work to stop the genocide in Kosovo, bring peace to the middle east, pass a budget that gives millions of kids a chance to have after school programs… So in other words you’ve got a lot of different moving parts and you can move them all at once.
But you’re also more at the mercy of events. That is 43 did not run for President to deal with the events of 9/11 but once it happened it wasn’t as if he had an option. Once I looked at the economic data after I won the election, I realized I would have to work harder to reduce the deficit and therefore have less money in my first year to invest in things I wanted to invest in.
WALLACE: So what is it that you can do as a former president.
CLINTON: So what you can do as a former president, you don’t have as wide a range of powers so you have to concentrate on fewer things. But you are less at the mercy of …events. If I say look we’re going to work on economic empowerment of poor people, on fighting aids and other diseases, on trying to bridge the religious and political differences between people and on trying to avoid the worst calamities of climate change and try to revitalize the economy in the process, I can actually do that. Because tomorrow when I get up and there’s a bad headline in the papers, it’s President Bush’s responsibility and not mine. That’s the joy of being a former potus. And it is true that if you live long enough and have discipline in the way you do it — like this CGI — you might be able to effect as many lives as you did when president.
WALLACE: When we announced that you were going to be on fox news Sunday, I got a lot of email from viewers, and I got to say I was surprised most of them wanted me to ask you this question. Why didn’t you do more to put Bin Laden and al Qaeda out of business when you were President. There’s a new book out which I suspect you’ve read called the Looming Tower. And it talks about how the fact that when you pulled troops out of Somalia in 1993, Bin Laden said I have seen the frailty and the weakness and the cowardice of US troops. Then there was the bombing of the embassies in Africa and the attack on the USS Cole.
CLINTON: OK..
WALLACE: …may I just finish the question sir. And after the attack, the book says, Bin Laden separated his leaders because he expected an attack and there was no response. I understand that hindsight is 20 20.
CLINTON: No let’s talk about…
WALLACE: …but the question is why didn’t you do more, connect the dots and put them out of business?
CLINTON: OK, let’s talk about it. I will answer all of those things on the merits but I want to talk about the context of which this…arises. I’m being asked this on the FOX network…ABC just had a right wing conservative on the Path to 9/11 falsely claim that it was based on the 911 commission report with three things asserted against me that are directly contradicted by the 9/11 commission report. I think it’s very interesting that all the conservative Republicans who now say that I didn’t do enough, claimed that I was obsessed with Bin Laden. All of President Bush’s neocons claimed that I was too obsessed with finding Bin Laden when they didn’t have a single meeting about Bin Laden for the nine months after I left office. All the right wingers who now say that I didn’t do enough said that I did too much. Same people.
They were all trying to get me to withdraw from Somalia in 1993 the next day after we were involved in black hawk down and I refused to do it and stayed 6 months and had an orderly transfer to the UN.
Ok, now let’s look at all the criticisms: Black hawk down, Somalia. There is not a living soul in the world who thought that Bin laden had anything to do with black hawk down or was paying any attention to it or even knew al Qaeda was a growing concern in October of 1993.
WALLACE: …I understand…
CLINTON: No wait…no wait…Don’t tell me. You asked me why I didn’t do more to Bin Laden. There was not a living soul…all the people who criticized me wanted to leave the next day. You brought this up so you get an answer.
WALLACE: I’m perfectly happy to. Bin Laden says…
CLINTON: And secondly…
WALLACE: Bin Laden says…
CLINTON: Bin laden may have said that…
WALLACE: Bin Laden says it showed the weakness of the US…
CLINTON: It would have shown the weakness if we left right away but he wasn’t involved in that. That’s just a bunch of bull. That was about Mohammed Adid, a Muslim war lord murdering..thousands of Pakistani Muslim troops. We were all there on a humanitarian mission. We had not one mission — none — to establish a certain kind of Somali government or to keep anybody out. He was not a religious fanatic.
WALLACE: But Mr. President…
CLINTON: There was no Al Qaeda…
WALLACE: …with respect if I may. Instead of going through 93.
CLINTON: You asked you. It you brought it up.
WALLACE: May I ask a general question that you can answer. The 9/11 Commission, which you talk about, and this is what they did say, not what ABC pretended they said…
CLINTON: Wait, Wait…
WALLACE: …they said about you and 43 and I quote, “The US government took the threat seriously, not in the sense of mustering anything like that would be….to confront an enemy of the first, second or third rank”
CLINTON: That’s not true with us and Bin Laden…
WALLACE: …the 9/11 commission says…
CLINTON: Let’s look at what Richard Clarke says. You think Richard Clarke has a vigorous attitude about Bin Laden? |
Blind?
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: |
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I really don't understand all of the attacks on Clinton; ever since he left office, he's been doing REALLY good work. He started the 'Clinton Global Initiative' which is fighting global warming, disease, hunger, and also has goals to help heal racial and religious differences.
He has a huge number of right-wing Republicans helping him, including George H.W. Bush as well as Rupert Murdoch.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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