Judgment of Nations

golfjack · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: Judgment of Nations

Joel 3:2 I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jesoshaphat. There I will enter judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land. NIV version

Any comments? Will America be judged accordingly? Does Palistine have a right to God's land?

May God bless, golfjack

cballard · Grizzly Bear Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 728 Location: WV

One can definitely see the hand of God moving throughout the nations. Does Palestine have a right to the Holy Land? Good question. The land was re-named Palestine by the Roman Emperor after the Jewish War in 70 A.D. I didn't know that until I did some history study.

God will judge nations. Does it matter if our nation supports Isreal as a nation? Good questions. I don't think the answers are easy. It's not a simple yes or no.

In my own mind, unless they are orthodox Jews, they aren't any more special that any one else. Isreal as a nation today is what the Bible would call, following heathen nations. Can I support them when they are wrong? When have they done wrong? Those are questions that need answering before I can decide if my nation should support them or not. What's your opinion?

golfjack · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: reply

Cballard, Thanks for your thoughtful insight. I will give 5 Biblical reasons why Christians should support Israel, but first I will give a general statement about what is going on today in the Middle-East today.

Now this is my opinion and only that. I believe we are involved in the beginning of World War 3, which will last until the battle of Armegaden is won by the sword of Jesus Christ. There are many moveable parts to this war, but the one big one is Radical Islam, a faciest organization. It is not about land so much, as it is a war of idealogy. Cballard, your are right on to say that Palistine has no right to God's land because the King of Rome, can't remember his name changed the name of Judea to Palestine on the map. And to this day is called Palestine. What is this idealogy? All one has to do is read the Koran, and read the history of Muhamad, the false prophet to understand this radical idealogy. They want to take over the whole world with us being their slaves, and if we don't swear allegience to the God Alah, they will kill us.

Now, why do I say this is the start of World war 3? All one has to do is look at all the possible ways that could bring the world into war, not unlike world war 2. North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Syria, South America, India, Pakistan, Indionasia, sudan, many more Islamic republics, and finally the start to the beginning of the rapture will be Russia, and Arab Nations coming against Israel.

Is America in Bible Prophesy? during World War 2, it was. I see no America in todays prophesy because they will not be part of the Revised Roman Empire, which will have ten nations, three thrown off, and finally the Little Horn, the Anti-christ as their head. I could go on and on here, but this is a big subject. One more thing: I believe America will not be involved in end-times Prophesy because many of our leaders, and religious will be part of the rapture.

To answer your question, I will give 5 verses from the Bible that leads us as to why Christians should support Israel.

Joel 3:2, 14; Zech. 2:8; Gen. 12:3; Gen. 15:18; 17: 2-8, and this is just a few mentioned in the Bible.

Maybe it would be fun for us to see what other Scripture has to say.

May God bless, golfjack

Gabbylittleangel · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Judgment of Nations

golfjack · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: reply

Do we owe a debt of eterrnal gratitude to the Jewish people for their contributions, which gave birth to the Christian faith?

Jesus Christ, a prominent rabbi from Nazareth, said, Salvation is of the Jews ( John 4:22). Consider what the Jewish people have given to Christianity;

1. The sacred Scripture
2. the prophets
3. the patriarchs
4. Mary, Joseph, and Jesus of Nazareth
5. The twelve disciples
6. the Apostles

May God bless, golfjack

cballard · Grizzly Bear Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 728 Location: WV

Certainly Christianity owes a debt of gratitude to the Jewish Religion, but do we owe a debt of gratitude to the Jewish Nation as it is today? Is the nation of today and the same O.T. faith we read about in the O.T. For instance, the Jewish nation of today sanctions abortions. Actually, very few of them practice their religion. Are they still special just because of their Jewishness? All those you mention Biblically believed in the fullfillment of God's promises in Jesus.
I think the N.T. other than the Four Gospels,is a lot about Christians and Jews trying to sort out the promises of God based on Jesus's words and actions. I don't see the answer clearly of supporting Isreal right or wrong.

golfjack · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: reply

Well, this is up to you my friend. The land of Israel is God's land, Jeruslem is God's Holy City. We do serve a Covenant God, who doesn't break covenants. If He could break the eternal covenant with Israel, the question is, is he going to break the covenant with us? I think not. Romans 11:25-26 says All Israel will be saved. How is this? Today, if they have no Jesus, then they will have eternal punishment. But after the Church is taken out, then their eyes and ears will be opened, and many will be saved during the first three and half years of Tribulation, the people who do not take the mark of the beast. What I say is all based on Scripture.

Maybe, you should take an adventure down history lane to see how the Jews have been persecuted through centuries and centuries.

May God bless, golfjack

Yehushuan · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject:

I’m a bit confused as to how anyone could advocate supporting a people who curse the name of Jesus. That doesn’t make sense to me.

Jesus redefined the word Israel to mean all those who follow him. This was a fundamental message in the early church before the measure of Gentiles increased to the point where the concept was abandoned.

Nevertheless, the People of God are those who follow God, not those whose father is the Devil. Nor those who curse the name of Christ.

The Vine of God:

The nation of Israel, the genetic peoples of the twelve tribes considered themselves a Vine:

(Psalms 80:8) Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.

(Psalms 80:14) Return, we beseech thee, O God of hosts: look down from heaven, and behold, and visit this vine; (15) And the vineyard which thy right hand hath planted, and the branch that thou madest strong for thyself.

(Isaiah 5:7) For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

Yet hear the words of the Lord:

(John 15:1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. (2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. (3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. (4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. (5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

He, Jesus, is the true vine, the true Israel, not the nation of Israel by bloodline. Ye are clean through the word which the Jew of today curses, and if the curse not be public, it is still present in the fact that they believe not, and if we are to believe the word then “he that believeth not is condemned already” (cf. John 3:18). I have heard the most vile things said about Jesus by those of the circumcision, those who felt comfortable enough to speak their hearts even knowing me to be a pastor, that you would not believe. But mind you, this is not anti-Semitism, for I advocate no evil upon them at all by the hand of anyone. Yet neither can I advocate financial or military support for a people who are no longer the nation of God.

The Family of God:

Hear the Word of the Lord tell you who now is the nation, the people, the family of God:

(Matthew 12:47) Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. (48) But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? (49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! (50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

And just what is this will of the Father that brings one into the kingdom – the nation of the true Israel – the family of God? All of that which Jesus taught:

(Matthew 6:14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

(John 6:28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The Disciples of God:

The Nation of Israel is Anti-Christ because they do not do the work of God, (do they?) How can those who do not believe, who curse the name of Jesus, who are indeed against (anti) Jesus the Christ be called the people of God? Are they the disciples of God?

(John 8:31) Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Does this political travesty calling itself Israel continue in His Word? God forbid that we should so delude ourselves to think that Jewish people by bloodline are God’s people. (At least from a Christian perspective.) Has the church gone daft? Or is it led to believe a lie? What does God say about those who are and who are not His?

(John 8:47) He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Do the Jews hear the Words of the Christ? No, they are against Christ. And from the words of the Lord, they are not of God. My brothers, this is written so clearly, even from the mouth of Christ Himself, that they who do not believe are of their father the Devil. Yet the Church says these are God’s people?

So what does the Word of the Lord say with regards to how we should treat those who are not of God because they do not beleive in Jesus?

(Matthew 18:17) And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

And I say to you, the political travesty calling itself the nation of Israel is not Israel at all, and that by the Word of the Lord they should be unto us as an heathen and publican. (Which is to say of course that we love our enemy for the purpose of their evangelization, and no more.)

(Romans 9:8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh (the Jewish bloodline), these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise (those baptized in the Holy Ghost) are counted for the seed.

(Romans 9:6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel (the people of God), which are of Israel (the genetic bloodline):

(Romans 3:3) For what if some (of the bloodline) did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? (4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

And I hope it is recognized that I advocate no violence toward anyone, and that my post is meant to clarity and edify the Church as to its real identity AS the True Israel.

Let the Word of the Lord stand,
Yehushuan
_________________
There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago.

golfjack · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: reply

Yehu, all you do is speak in folly. I don't even have to reply to your folly.

May God bless, golfjack

golfjack · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: reply

Israel is the only nation createde by a sovereign God. Israel belongs to God himself. As creator of heaven and earth ( Gen. 1:1). God had the right of oownership to give the land to whomever He chose. God gave the title deed for the land of Israel to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants forever ( Gen. 15:18; 17:2-8). Ishmael, father of thhe Arabs, was excluded from the title deed to the land in Gen. 17:19-21. Therefore, modern day Palestine have no Biblical mandate to own the land.

The boundaries of the state of Israel are recorded in Scripture. ( see Numbers 34:2-15; Joshua 11:16-23; 13:1-22). The boundaries are further described in Ezekiel 47: 13-28 and all of chapter 48.

When God established the nations of the world, He began with Israel. Israel is the center of the universe in the mind of God. ( see Deut. 32:8-10; Numbers 34:10-15; Joshua 11:16-22).

May God bless, golfjack

Gabbylittleangel · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Judgment of Nations

lone-traveler · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject:

where abouts in Fl Gabby??

I just moved down here in April. I'm in Astor. Lake county.
So far the weathers been interesting. Fires and thunderstorms. But I here hurricane season is now till sept??

I'm hoping the Lord goes easy on us seeing it's my first year here LOL..seriously.

God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

golfjack · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: reply

Gabby, Do we have Abortion? Do we have promotion of homosexuality? Do we have the ACLU? Can Children pray in school? Do we have immorality? Do we have crosses being taken down? Do we have people who want to take God out of the of the pledge of allegience? Do we have judges who want to make law instead of interpreting it. Your answer is found in these questions. What can we do? Repent. I believe we must weed out the far left in this country. God is slow in anger, but He is not slack in Justice. When the righteous rule, the people rejoice. When the ungodly rule, the people mourn.

May God bless, golfjack

Gabbylittleangel · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: reply

cballard · Grizzly Bear Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 728 Location: WV

I get confused by your thinking. Sometimes you seem to think the Bible speaks only in spiritual terms and then sometimes in physical terms. So you see the Holy Land as physical? Or is it spiritual as in the Kingdom of God that Jesus established? Do we owe physical allegience to Isreal? That is a question I have not decided on.