All believers are resurrected on the Last Day

onehope · Sea Monkey Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 13

Jesus said in John 6:39,40,44,54 that ALL who believe on Him would be raised on the last day. According to I Thess. 4:16 the dead in Christ are raised first and then the rapture takes place. This makes it impossible for any rapture before the last day.

According to pre-trib doctrine there is a resurrection for some before the tribulation and another one at the end.

Isn't there a scripture somewhere about adding to God's Word?

What's up pre-trib scholars?

golfjack · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:01 am Post subject: reply

Are you implying that there is no resurrection for the unbeliever? I suggest you look at Rev. 20:11-15. This is the second death or second resurrection for the damned.

May God bless, golfjack

bibleprophecy_ndbpsa · Tadpole Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 23

In the height of heaven (Job 22:12 below), in the third heaven (2 Cor.12:2 below) God inhabits eternity (Isa.57:15 below) and dwells in Zion (Joel 3:21, Ps.23:6 below).

Christ chose us before the foundation of the word that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love (Eph.1:4 below): and He gave those He chose eternal life (Jn.10:28-29, Jn.3:36, Jn.17:2 below).

Having been given eternal life, we in Christ Jesus are passed from death unto life (Jn.5:24 below), never to die, to live with God in Eternity (Isa.57:15 below), in His kingdom (Dan.7:18, Dan.7:22 below).

We are of the household of God (Eph.2:19 below).

Job 22:12 [Is] not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the stars, how high they are!

2 Cor.12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Isa. 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name [is] Holy; I dwell in the high and holy [place], with him also [that is] of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Joel 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood [that] I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.\

Ps.23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me (David) all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Eph.1:4 According as he (Christ) hath CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love (Jn.5:24 below):

Jn.3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life (Jn.5:24 below): and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jn.5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life (Jn.3:36 above), and shall not come into condemnation (Eph.1:4 above); but is passed FROM death UNTO life.

Jn.10:28 And I give unto them eternal life (Jn.3:36, Jn.5:24 above); and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand (Jn.10:29 below).

Jn.10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me (Eph.1:4 above, 1 Pe.1:3-4 below), is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand (Jn.10:28 above).

Jn.17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast GIVEN him.

Eph.2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

1 Pe.1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Pe.1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Dan.7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom (Dan.7:22 below) for ever, even for ever and ever.

Dan.7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom (Dan.7:18 above).

Pat (ndbpsa ©)
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onehope · Sea Monkey Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 13

Bless You Golfjack-

You said:

lone-traveler · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject:

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Why does Paul say that we are raised up?
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

onehope · Sea Monkey Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 13

Lone Traveler:

Bless you my brother: The very good scriptures you quoted (they're all good) are absolutley true. I was raised up out of my sins at the time I was converted and have been sitting in heavenly places in Christ Jesus ever since.

Jesus mentions the two types of resurrection in John 5. The first set is talking about our spiritual resurrection.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 5:25 (KJV)

This verse specifically is talking about the hour that now is, not in the future, that when a person who is dead (spiritually) hears the voice of the Son of God and lives. (is resurrected to a new life spiritually)

These next verses describe an hour that is coming in the future describing the resurrection of our fleshly bodies after we have physically died.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:28-29 (KJV)

This verse is the one I was referring to concerning the resurrection of the believers on the Last Day when Jesus comes the second time.

lone-traveler · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject:

talking about this day?

2Ch 7:9 And in the eighth day they made a solemn assembly: for they kept the dedication of the altar seven days, and the feast seven days.

Lone
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

got_truth? · Ferret Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 107

Paul was addressing spirit anointed Christians who would reign with Christ in heaven during the 1,000 year reign. The number resurrected to heaven is only 144,000 as stated in Rev. 14:1-4. Jesus was the first of these when he was resurrected. The rest would remain dead until Jesus began his rule as King which began in 1914. At that time all anointed ones who had died up until that time were then resurrected to heavenly life, including Paul. From then on any anointed who died were immediately resurrected to heaven. Notice Luke 12:32 refers to those going to heaven as a "little flock". What about the rest of mankind? John 5:28,29 speaks of the general resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. This includes all humans that died before Jesus (since he was the firstfruits of the heavenly resurrection). These will be resurrected during the millenial reign of Jesus and the 144,000 to earth. They will be judged based on their actions during that time, not the past (Rom. 6:23) At the end of the 1,000 years Satan will be released for a final test. Those who choose to follow Satan will be completely destroyed forever (Rev. 21:8) this is the second death which is a death with no hope of ever being resurrected. The faithful shall serve God forever on earth, just as was God's original purpose for Adam and Eve. Pretty simple stuff.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

if it is so simple why have you got it so confused?....

the first resurrection is the saints of the tribulation and the martyrs....the rest are not raised until the thousand years are over...rev 20 says so plainly...the 144,000 are a different thing and nowhere does the word say they are resurrected(show it now!)...and JESUS is not part of the number and it is not all the jews that will ever be saved....that is completely unsupported by the word and is nothing more than a j.w. fantasy...the 144000 are the remenant that will be saved during the wrath...as there is always a remenant of the jews...

got_truth? · Ferret Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 107

Revelation 20:13 says that “the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha´des gave up those dead in them.” This does not include the 144,000 footstep followers of Jesus Christ who are referred to in Hebrews 2:16 as “Abraham’s seed,” by means of whom all the nations of our earth will procure an everlasting blessing. (Rev. 7:3-8; 14:1, 3; Gen. 12:3; 22:18) Nineteen centuries ago Ha´des or Sheol gave up the dead Jesus Christ, and these 144,000 faithful followers who are his spiritual brothers are made like him in having part in what is called “the first resurrection.”

According to indications in the Bible, their resurrection began in the year 1918 C.E., or three and a half years after Jesus Christ was enthroned and crowned as heavenly King to begin ruling in the midst of his enemies. (Ps. 110:1, 2; Heb. 10:12, 13; Rev. 14:13) Hence before Revelation, chapter twenty, tells us about the delivering up of the dead ones by the sea and by death and Ha´des, it tells us first about the resurrection of the 144,000 spiritual followers of Jesus Christ, in the following words:

“I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death [symbolized by the lake of fire] has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.”—Rev. 20:4-6, 14; 21:8.

got_truth? · Ferret Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 107

Since Revelation 20:5, 6 speaks of “the first resurrection,” it indicates that there is a certain order followed in the resurrection as a whole. This is clearly told to us in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, which speaks to us about the resurrection of the 144,000 disciples who will have a glorious, heavenly, spiritual resurrection. Those verses cited read: “Now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. But each one in his own rank: Christ the first fruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.”

16 Revelation, chapter twenty, also indicates order by depicting for us first the coming to life of the 144,000 joint heirs of Jesus Christ, who are made happy in the first resurrection, and later the deliverance from the sea and from Ha´des of all the other dead who get the opportunity for eternal life on earth.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

the bble says nothing about 1918...and 1 cor..does no mention the 144000...don't add to the bible...it will get you the plagues... Wink

...i have to go swimming now...see you later...

got_truth? · Ferret Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 107

Not adding anything. Bible prophecy gives us 1914 as the year Jesus began ruling as King in heaven. The spiritual resurrection of the “dead in Christ” in the spring of 1918, three and a half years from the enthronement of Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in autumn of 1914, would parallel Jesus’ own resurrection on Nisan 16, 33 C.E., “at the half of the week.” (Dan. 9:27) Thus they did “rise first.” Their doing so did “precede” the resurrecting of those surviving to Christ’s “presence,” or parousia. Those still alive would be changed instantly at death and go to heaven. And Paul was speaking to anointed ones or spiritual Israel in all his writings. And Revelation gives us the number as 144,000. You have to take the Bible as a whole, use the context, and it all has to harmonize. Again, pretty simple stuff. The Bible carries a universal theme from Genesis to Revelation. What was God's original purpose for the earth? He created man perfect, to inhabit the earth forever and to extend the boundaries of paradise earthwide. Just because man messed up does that make God's purpose change? No he immediately gave the promise that it would be fulfilled through Jesus as King and during his reign all things would be brought back to the way they were meant to be. Look at the big picture.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

Funny, I don't remember reading the year 1914 anywhere in scripture.

I don't understand how one can say they are not 'adding' to the bible when they say it says something it simply does not say.
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got_truth? · Ferret Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 107

‘Where does the Bible foretell the very year the Messiah appeared on earth?’ The Bible book of Daniel says: “From the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks,” or all together 69 weeks. (Daniel 9:25) These, however, are not 69 literal weeks, which amount to only 483 days, or a little more than one year. They are 69 weeks of years, or 483 years. (Compare Numbers 14:34.) The command to restore and rebuild the walls of Jerusalem was given in 455 B.C.E. (Nehemiah 2:1-8) So these 69 weeks of years ended 483 years later, in 29 C.E. And that is the very year that Jesus came to John to be baptized! On that occasion he was anointed with holy spirit and became the Messiah, or Christ.—Luke 3:1, 2, 21-23. (remember the Jews were in expectation of the Messiah at that time. They weren't given the exact date, they discerned from the prophecies the time table involved)

WHEN GOD’S GOVERNMENT BEGINS ITS RULE

Well, then, where does the Bible foretell the year that Christ begins to rule as king of God’s government? It is in this same Bible book of Daniel. (Daniel 4:10-37) There a giant, heaven-high tree is used to represent King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He was the highest human ruler at that time. However, King Nebuchadnezzar was forced to know that someone higher was ruling. This one is “the Most High,” or “the King of the heavens,” Jehovah God. (Daniel 4:34, 37) So, in a more important way, this heaven-high tree, comes to represent the supreme rulership of God, particularly in its relationship to our earth. Jehovah’s rulership was expressed for a time through the kingdom that he set up over the nation of Israel. Thus the kings of the tribe of Judah who reigned over the Israelites were said to “sit upon Jehovah’s throne.”—1 Chronicles 29:23.

According to the Bible account in Daniel chapter four, the heaven-high tree was cut down. However, the stump was left, and bands of iron and of copper were put on it. This would keep the stump from growing until it was God’s time to remove the bands and let it start growing again. But how and when was God’s rulership cut down?

In due course, the kingdom of Judah that Jehovah had set up became so corrupt that he allowed King Nebuchadnezzar to destroy it, to cut it down. This happened in the year 607 B.C.E. At that time Zedekiah, the last king of Judah to sit on Jehovah’s throne, was told: “Lift off the crown. . . . it will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.”—Ezekiel 21:25-27.

So God’s rulership, as represented by the “tree,” was cut down in 607 B.C.E. No longer was there a government to represent God’s rulership in the earth. Thus, in 607 B.C.E. a period of time began that Jesus Christ later referred to as “the appointed times of the nations,” or, “the times of the Gentiles.” (Luke 21:24; King James Version) During these “appointed times” God did not have a government to represent his rulership in the earth.

What was to happen at the end of these “appointed times of the nations”? Jehovah was to give the power to rule to the One “who has the legal right.” This One is Jesus Christ. So if we can find out when “the appointed times of the nations” end, we will know when Christ begins to rule as king.

According to Daniel chapter four, these “appointed times” would be “seven times.” Daniel shows that there would be “seven times” during which God’s rulership, as represented by the “tree,” would not be in operation over the earth. (Daniel 4:16, 23) How long are these “seven times”?

In Revelation chapter 12, verses 6 and 14, we learn that 1,260 days are equal to “a time [that is, 1 time] and times [that is, 2 times] and half a time.” That is a total of 3 1/2 times. So “a time” would be equal to 360 days. Therefore, “seven times” would be 7 times 360, or 2,520 days. Now if we count a day for a year, according to a Bible rule, the “seven times” equal 2,520 years.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.

We have already learned that “the appointed times of the nations” began in the year 607 B.C.E. So by counting 2,520 years from that date, we come down to 1914 C.E. That is the year these “appointed times” ended. Millions of people still living remember the things that happened in 1914. In that year, World War I began a period of terrible trouble that has continued to our day. This means that Jesus Christ began to rule as king of God’s heavenly government in 1914. And because the Kingdom has already started its rule, how timely it is that we pray for it to “come” and wipe Satan’s wicked system of things from the earth!—Matthew 6:10; Daniel 2:44.