How the Holy Spirit Leads Us.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

I'm sorry Gswisher but you are not getting it.

They were pricked in their hearts, why, because they did sin. They crucified the Lord of Glory!! They were in the crowd rooting for His death. That is what Peter is accusing them of. Read the passage. Slowly.

The p-r-i-c-k of sin IS conviction. A pagan does not wake up one day and realize he is sinful. He can't do that until he has heard the Word preached.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

Gswisher,

Let's back up. First of all we are talking about Romans 8:14. The question is what is this spirit of bondage again to fear? That is what this is all about.

I don't want to get into Acts 2. It sounds like you are defending pagans. Remember they may have a conscience as pointed out in Romans 1 but if you read further what do they do with it. Suppress it.

Let's focus on Romans 8:14. I am contending that this is the Holy Spirit convicting a person before he has repented. In the midst of the salvation process.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

Sorry I meant verse 15. The first half of the verse. That is what I am contending. Yes we talked about verse 14. The Holy Spirit leads us by persuasion and does not force our will.

I think we can agree on that. Notice Paul uses the word "again" in verse 15. That means that as unbelievers under conviction this happened to us once. But now we can cry Abba Father because we have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and have been reunited with the Father.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

Nobby,

Sorry, I just saw your questions. Let me try to answer them briefly. I am not going to try to show my support in any detail, just answer you. I won't contend with anyone about these things. I believe they are spiritually discerned.

As a believer do you ever sin?
This is difficult. I do not reckon the sin as being of me. See Romans 7: 17 & 20.

Does the Holy Spirit convict (Remind) of it very quickly?
Usually we know sin before-hand. I do know the one who commited the sin is dead. He has been put to death. I am the new man. I don't walk by sight but by faith. The more I focus on his sin nature being mine, the more I take on his nature. The more I focus on Christ being me--my new man, the more I walk in His nature.

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, the One loving me and giving Himself over on my behalf.

Do you ask the Lord forgiveness of it?
At times my conscience is overcome to the point that I need to cleanse my conscience by asking for what I know already to be true.

If it was again a Bro. did you ask his forgiveness?
It can't recall the last time I offended a brother--and was made aware of it. I do apologize to my wife.

Do you believe that if we sin, that sin is already covered, & we don't have to ask forgiveness? I can't speak for others because I do not know the strength of their conscience in CHrist. For some it is very important. I rarely feel that I need to ask for what I already have.
_________________
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the FULL knowledge of Him.--Eph 1:17

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

Gswisher,

Your answers reveal why you are having problems with this discussion.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

So based on Rom 8.15, you are...

Van · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:42 pm Post subject:

As I posted two pages back, Romans 8:14 is referring to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which seals us and marks us as being saved by the grace of God. But the indwellin comes after we are baptized into the body of Christ, and our burden of sin is removed by the circumcision made without hands, and we arise in Christ a new creature, born again, with a new spirit, alive and not spiritually dead. This is the spirit we received from God by His sovereign choice of granting grace through faith and this is the spirit of verse 15. The new creature is in Christ and hence is an adopted child of God. (Christ is the first born of many brethren.) Therefore, in Him, we cry out Abba Father, and pray to our Father who is in Heaven. Our bondage to sin leading to fear again refers back to before we received our new spirit.

None of the forgoing is the subject of the thread. What Vsjb34 is contending is that the bondage to sin leading to fear is connected to Romans 7:7-25. This passage tells us that the Law made us aware of sin. Before we knew the law, we might have thought we were alive, but the law brought an awarness of sin and that awarness killed us so to speak, we now know that we are dead in our trespassess. Hopelessly trapped in sin, we know we are wretched, and are in fear not only that we face the wrath of God, but that there is no escape, no way to attain the righteousness of God. And this understanding comes to us through the power of the Holy Spirit, through the Word of God, and through those chosen by God to be prophets, apostles, and messengers of God's Word. We are convicted of our sinfulness and our hopelessness. If the love of God is in our heart, our heart will be open to the gospel.

In conclusion, Paul says, "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! Now Paul shifts gears and begins to speak about the sanctification process after salvation, and it in this context we find our verses.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

Van · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 6:58 am Post subject:

Vsjb34, do you see a connection between Romans 6:4-11 and your passage from Romans 8?

Two other points are worth mentioning. The Law of Moses does not lead pagans, who know not the Law. Therefore, if we are presenting the gospel of Christ to a pagan, we must first present the Father, how He is holy, and we are separated from Him because we sin. Unless the person desires fellowship with the true God of the Bible, the gospel will not be accepted. You will note that when Paul was preaching to pagans, rather than Jews, He presented the "Unknown God".

The other point concerns Roman 7:7-25. The question is: Is Paul talking about a condition before salvation, or one that applies to some degree both before or after salvation, or is the passage exclusively pertaining to our post salvation condition? I think the passage can be correctly applied to pre-salvation individuals that are seeking to please God. And so the connection that Vsjb34 is pointing to is a valid connection.

Ron · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:32 pm Post subject:

I have yet to weigh in on this ropic but have been putting together a piece to add to this thread. I have more to follow but here is what I have now for you to ponder. Smile

The Ministry of the Holy Spirit

1.THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTS US
First of all, what does the Holy Spirit do to help us get saved? He convicts us of sin. In John 16:7-9, Jesus said, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto
you."

Had you rather be here when Jesus was here in the flesh? Or, had you rather be on earth when Jesus has gone to heaven? Be careful! Jesus said it is better for you that He is in heaven and the Holy Spirit is here. That's what the word "expedient" means. It means "suitable for achieving a particular end in a given circumstance."

He said, “... if I don't go, the Comforter will not come unto you, but if I depart I will send Him unto you. And when He is come He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on Me.” (John 16:8-9)

Without the convicting power of the Holy Spirit you would never have seen your need of the Savior. No person would be willing to give up his sin and really turn his back on this world in genuine repentance. A person does that only when the Holy Spirit of God convicts him of the hurtfulness and the hellishness of sin, only when the Holy Spirit convicts him that he is under the curse of God, that he is doomed and bound for hell.

Only the Holy Spirit of God can convict a man of sin. There is a difference between an admission of wrongdoing and a conviction of sin. If you've ever had that conviction of sin you know what it is. It was not some preacher that convicted you of sin. It was the Holy Spirit of
God who put His finger on your heart.

2. THE HOLY SPIRIT DRAWS US
Not only does the Holy Spirit of God convict lost sinners of their sin. The Holy Spirit of God draws those sinners to Jesus Christ. Jesus said in John 6:44, "No man can come unto Me, except the Father which hath sent Me, draw him...." Do you think it was your idea to come to Him? Oh no. You were running from Him. If He had not run you down you never would have been saved.

There are those in the realm of church growth who have seeker-sensitive services. They say that the church must be sensitive to all those people who are seeking the Lord. The truth of the matter is none of them are seeking the Lord. He is seeking them. If you want to be sensitive to somebody you had better be sensitive to the One who is seeking the sinner who is the Holy Spirit of God. Rather than making the sinners comfortable we'd better make the Holy Spirit comfortable because we are dependent upon the Holy Spirit of God to take what we say and
convict people. We never would have come had He not caught us and brought us and taught us. Is that not true? "There is none that seeketh after God" (Romans 3:11).

3. THE HOLY SPIRIT TEACHES US
Here's something else the Holy Spirit of God did when you got saved. He opened your under- standing so that you could understand the gospel. I was reading in the book of Acts about a woman named Lydia. The apostle Paul found' Lydia and shared the gospel of Christ with her. What brought Lydia to an understanding of the gospel? Acts 16:14 tells us, "And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened...." That's the reason I get on my knees and pray before I preach. I pray, "Lord, You have to open their hearts."

Think about a service where you've witnessed people come to Jesus. Who did that? Was it the choir? Was it the preacher? Was it the handshake of the ushers? No. The Holy Spirit of God opened the hearts of people so that they could understand the gospel.

A man without the Holy Spirit can't understand spiritual things. You might as well expect your dog to understand opera. First Corinthians 2:14 says, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God ... neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

4. THE HOLY SPIRIT SEALS US
The ministry of the Holy Spirit does not cease after you and I get saved. The first thing He does when you give your heart to Jesus is seal you into the body of Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 says concerning Him, "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise."

The Bible says in the book of Esther, "...seal it with the king's ring: for the writing ... may no man reverse" (Esther 8:8 ). The seal was a stamp of ownership and a finished transaction. When you get saved you are signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit of God.

I love what Paul said in 2 Timothy, "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are His" (2 Timothy 2:19). God puts a mark on us. We belong to Him.

5. THE HOLY SPIRIT INDWELLS US
Not only does the Holy Spirit of God after we get saved seal us into the body of Christ. But, then He comes to indwell our bodies. He comes to live in us.

In I Corinthians 6:19-20, Paul is almost amazed that the people didn't know this. He says, “What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”

People sometimes think that the church auditorium is the sanctuary. They say, "Now, the Lord is in His holy temple. Let all the earth keep silent. This is the sanctuary." The church is not the sanctuary. It is the sheep shed. Of course, we ought not to misuse the church building because it's dedicated to God. But, sometimes people have an idea that God dwells in temples made with hands.

When You get saved every place is a holy place. Every day is a holy day. Do you want to know where the temple is? It is in you. You are the temple of the Holy Spirit of God. You are not your own. You've been bought with the priceless blood of Jesus Christ, You're to glorify God in your body.

6. THE HOLY SPIRIT COMFORTS US
Once the Holy Spirit seals you into the body of Christ and indwells you, the Holy Spirit then carries you through life. And, when you have a heartache, a tear or a sorrow, He gives you comfort that no one else can give you.

In John 14:16-17, Jesus said, "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever."

The Greek word for Comforter is paraclete. It means somebody who is standing alongside of you to help you, to comfort you.

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you" (John 14:17). Jesus is saying, "I'm speaking of myself and I shall be in you. I'll be in you through the Holy Spirit."

Have you ever felt that comfort? I've been in the hospital room. I've seen the Holy Spirit of God do what no psychologist, no counselor, no good friend can do. He gives supernatural comfort.

7. THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDES US
Not only does the Holy Spirit comfort You. He also guides and directs you. You're not to be fumbling around like a ship without a mast, without a sail, without a compass, and without a rudder on a dark and stormy night. No! The Holy Spirit is to guide you.

The Bible says, in John 14:26. "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 16:13 says, "Howbeit, when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will show you things to come.”

You don't have to be living in darkness, stumbling in darkness. You can be walking in the light as the Holy Spirit of God opens your understanding, guides you, teaches you, instructs you, and leads you through this world.

More to come. Let me know what you think. God bless.
_________________
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15

Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron

http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron

Van · Last edited by Van on Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ron, much of what you posted is on the money. Thanks. Some of what you posted is drawn from inferences made based on several passages. What I present below are inferences drawn from the context of the passages in question. What you presented may also be true, it is just more of a reach.

1. The Holy Spirit convicts the unsaved because they did not believe Jesus. How was this accomplished? Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and preached the inspired word of God and those that heard were convicted that they had rejected Jesus and repented and were saved. James 2:9 says that the Law, given to us through inspired biblical writers, filled with the Holy Spirit, convicts us of lawlessness. People seek God, and try to reach him in ineffective ways such as by keeping the law, which because it is the wrong way Paul describes as not seeking God. The Law is a curse that brings judgment. It makes us aware of our transgessions of God's will, and convicts us of sin.

2. How does the Father draw the unsaved to Christ? Through the word of God. Lydia worshipped God and was faithful to God. Since the love of God was in her heart, her heart was open to the gospel. If you reject the Father, you will not come to the Son.

3. The natural man has great difficulty receiving the word of God, so the Bible says we are to present the milk of the gospel which can be received (1 Corinthians 3:1-2) We are to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help us choose the words so that we can present the gospel clearly and boldly. We are to pray for guidance such that our actions and behaviors present Christ to outsiders, such that we make the most of every opportunity. (Colossians 4:4-6) The milk that the natural man can receive includes laying the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, clearly indicating the gospel can be received by the unsaved (Hebrews 6:1). In fact the problem is that some of the unsaved, after tasting the good word of God have fallen away, again demonstrating that the milk is the gospel and can be received by the unsaved. Thus 1 Corinthinans 2:14 refers to Spiritual meat that can only be appraised by an indwelt believer whose mind is living in the spirit. The passage does not teach that the unsaved are unable to receive spiritual milk, the gospel of Christ.

4. The Holy Spirit baptizes us into the body of Christ, and then we are sealed in Him by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a pledge of our inheritance. Ephesians 1:13-14.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

Ron,

I don't think there is anything wrong with what you posted. I don't think you are reaching. I especially agree with these words: