Why I personally believe in the Holy Trinity

VCO · Alley Cat Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 178

I am curious about how other Christians explain their beliefs when asked, "Why do you believe in the Holy Trinity.

I know I was taught about the Holy Trinity by my Parents and Sunday School Teachers; however I must admit that my deep heart felt belief in the Holy Trinity came after I was born again at the age of 29. It was after a deep depression and three attempts at suicide over a failed marriage that I found myself on my knees weeping and crying out, "Lord forgive me! If You have a purpose for my life, You come into it, and You run it; because I am making a mess of it." True, I had head knowlege about the Holy Trinity prior to that, but only after that born again experience did I begin to gain heart knowlege.

Early in my born again Christian walk, the Holy Spirit gave me a deeper understanding of the Holy Trinity and what a trinity was. I now must answer, "I believe in the Holy Trinity because you are a little trinity." WHAT? That is right and I can prove it biblically.

Genesis 1:26-27 (NKJV)
26 Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

NOTICE, it says "God" singular followed by "Us" plural; "Our plural followed by "image" singular; "Our plural followed by "likeness" singular; all in verse 26; while in the very next verse it all switches to a singular Creator. Clearly it is indicating a plural, singular Being created man. If God is not a Trinity (three parts or personages that make up One God; then there are several grammatical errors and contradictions in these two verses. HOWEVER, if God is a Holy Trinity, then these two verses are Perfect and absolute Truth.

Clearly the Bible teaches that we are created in the image of God. How then are we like God?

God is HOLY, we are not.
God is ALL KNOWING, we are not.
God is ALL POWERFUL, we are not.
God is THE CREATOR, we are not.
God is OMNIPRESENT (present in every cubic in of the Universe and ever second of Time at the same time, and WE ARE NOT.

The only way we are like God is that like Him, we are a trinity, three parts that make up one being:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (ISV)
23 May the God of peace himself make you holy in every way. And may your whole being—spirit, soul, and body—be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

SEE IT NOW? You are one being not three beings, YET you are a trinity made up of a spirit, a soul, and a body.

1. spirit = the part that was not alive at natural birth, Col. 2:13, and the Holy Spirit Himself has to bring that part to life, John 3:3-8, before it has a will to obey God.
2. soul = is the part made up of the will of the flesh, thoughts, memories, emotions, feeling, the ability to reason and learn, etc.; none of which can be seen.
3. body = the sum total of all the cells, those things that can be seen, or looked at under a microscope.

Yes you truly are created in the image of God, three parts that make up one being; AND just like God two parts are invisable, and one part is visable.

Matthew 28:19-20 (NKJV)
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

NOTE, that is says "the name" singular, YET that singular name is made of "the Father", "the Son", and "the Holy Spirit"

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

[quote="VCO"]

45degreeN · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:11 am Post subject:

While I do hold the belief that God is a Trinity, I dont hold it so tightly that I want it to become a doctrine or a test of faith. Our salvation doesn't depend upon God being a trinity we rely upon the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross not some idea of Jesus' relationship with God the father.

In fact there are many scripture verses that lead us to the conclusion that God is a trinity, since we are fallen creatures we cannot really truly understand that relationship between the Godhead and anyone who claims to know for sure is lying. (possibly merely repeating what others have told them without truly understanding it).

Colter · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 409

Yhanks VCO,

This why I belive in the Trinity, but in my understanding of the trinity Jesus is a creation of the trinity. That is to say, I see Jesus as my creator brother.

"THE Paradise Trinity of eternal Deities facilitates the Father's escape from personality absolutism. The Trinity perfectly associates the limitless expression of God's infinite personal will with the absoluteness of Deity. The Eternal Son and the various Sons of divine origin, together with the Conjoint Actor and his universe children, effectively provide for the Father's liberation from the limitations otherwise inherent in primacy, perfection, changelessness, eternity, universality, absoluteness, and infinity.

The Paradise Trinity effectively provides for the full expression and perfect revelation of the eternal nature of Deity. The Stationary Sons of the Trinity likewise afford a full and perfect revelation of divine justice. The Trinity is Deity unity, and this unity rests eternally upon the absolute foundations of the divine oneness of the three original and co-ordinate and coexistent personalities, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit."

"It would seem that the Father, back in eternity, inaugurated a policy of profound self-distribution. There is inherent in the selfless, loving, and lovable nature of the Universal Father something which causes him to reserve to himself the exercise of only those powers and that authority which he apparently finds it impossible to delegate or to bestow.

The Universal Father all along has divested himself of every part of himself that was bestowable on any other Creator or creature. He has delegated to his divine Sons and their associated intelligences every power and all authority that could be delegated. He has actually transferred to his Sovereign Sons, in their respective universes, every prerogative of administrative authority that wastransferable. In the affairs of a local universe, he has made each Sovereign Creator Son just as perfect, competent, and authoritative as is the Eternal Son in the original and central universe. He has given away, actually bestowed, with the dignity and sanctity of personality possession, all of himself and all of his attributes, everything he possibly could divest himself of, in every way, in every age, in every place, and to every person, and in every universe except that of his central indwelling.

Divine personality is not self-centered; self-distribution and sharing of personality characterize divine freewill selfhood. Creatures crave association with other personal creatures; Creators are moved to share divinity with their universe children; the personality of the Infinite is disclosed as the Universal Father, who shares reality of being and equality of self with two co-ordinate personalities, the Eternal Son and the Conjoint Actor.

For knowledge concerning the Father's personality and divine attributes we will always be dependent on the revelations of the Eternal Son, for when the conjoint act of creation was effected, when the Third Person of Deity sprang into personality existence and executed the combined concepts of his divine parents, the Father ceased to exist as the unqualified personality. With the coming into being of the Conjoint Actor and the materialization of the central core of creation, certain eternal changes took place. God gave himself as an absolute personality to his Eternal Son. Thus does the Father bestow the "personality of infinity" upon his only-begotten Son, while they both bestow the "conjoint personality" of their eternal union upon the Infinite Spirit."

By the technique of trinitization the Father divests himself of that unqualified spirit personality which is the Son, but in so doing he constitutes himself the Father of this very Son and thereby possesses himself of unlimited capacity to become the divine Father of all subsequently created, eventuated, or other personalized types of intelligent will creatures. As the absolute and unqualified personality the Father can function only as and with the Son, but as a personal Father he continues to bestow personality upon the diverse hosts of the differing levels of intelligent will creatures, and he forever maintains personal relations of loving association with this vast family of universe children.

After the Father has bestowed upon the personality of his Son the fullness of himself, and when this act of self-bestowal is complete and perfect, of the infinite power and nature which are thus existent in the Father-Son union, the eternal partners conjointly bestow those qualities and attributes which constitute still another being like themselves; and this conjoint personality, the Infinite Spirit, completes the existential personalization of Deity.

"The Son is indispensable to the fatherhood of God. The Spirit is indispensable to the fraternity of the Second and Third Persons. Three persons are a minimum social group, but this is least of all the many reasons for believing in the inevitability of the Conjoint Actor.

The First Source and Center is the infinite father-personality, the unlimited source personality. The Eternal Son is the unqualified personality-absolute, that divine being who stands throughout all time and eternity as the perfect revelation of the personal nature of God. The Infinite Spirit is the conjoint personality, the unique personal consequence of the everlasting Father-Son union.

The personality of the First Source and Center is the personality of infinity minus the absolute personality of the Eternal Son. The personality of the Third Source and Center is the superadditive consequence of the union of the liberated Father-personality and the absolute Son-personality.

The Universal Father, the Eternal Son, and the Infinite Spirit are unique persons; none is a duplicate; each is original; all are united.

The Eternal Son alone experiences the fullness of divine personality relationship, consciousness of both sonship with the Father and paternity to the Spirit and of divine equality with both Father-ancestor and Spirit-associate. The Father knows the experience of having a Son who is his equal, but the Father knows no ancestral antecedents. The Eternal Son has the experience of sonship, recognition of personality ancestry, and at the same time the Son is conscious of being joint parent to the Infinite Spirit. The Infinite Spirit is conscious of twofold personality ancestry but is not parental to a co-ordinate Deity personality. With the Spirit the existential cycle of Deity personalization attains completion; the primary personalities of the Third Source and Center are experiential and are seven in number." UB 1955

http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper10.html

Colter

Dust · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject:

Hello VCO,

In my case I had accepted Christ as my savior almost immediately upon hearing the Gospel. It was after I had been born again, that I first heard of the trinity concept, and later learned some of the elementry aspects. I believed it. I was unaware of any technical aspects of it, but I never questioned it. In my mind there was nothing to question, we're talking about God.

Well by-and-large I became aware of other views, but I didn't want to hear them, or have anything to do with them. I hadn't even read the whole Bible yet, and certainly didn't want to hear some oddball's view. I wanted to be led by God, and God alone. Oh, I went to Chruch, yet I didn't care what denomination it was.....denominations didn't mean anything to me. It was the message I was receiving that mattered. I needed the milk of the word.

Here I am now, years and years later, discussing/debating the issues surrounding the trinity-concept hard and heavy. I do it for the purpose of expanding and/or honing my own understanding as much as anything else, such as trying to share the truth.

Anyway, I think the common element in your story and mine is the placement/demonstration of faith first; then understanding.

As it is....I think that if some sort of biblical/spiritual understanding is acquired before one has faith.....faith that has been demonstrated.....the correctness of such understanding would be highly suspect. As a matter of fact, I would say that there is a 99% chance that it's wrong.

Now that's not to say that one who posesses faith has a 100% accurate EXPRESSED view, but the truth has been placed in his/her heart.

So, in conclusion..... I believed it before I understood it. And this drives those who pride themselves as creatures-of-reason, eight kinds of crazy.

VCO · Alley Cat Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 178

First of all theseldomscene since you and some of the others may not have read my post under Introduce Yourself, let me reintroduce myself. The handle I use, VCO, stands for Volunteer Chaplain Orville. I was a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain at Pelican Bay State Prison for 9 years, followed by 6 years at High Desert State Prison, both are Maximum Security Prisons for men in California.

Now then theseldomscene, you asked:

>oh yes?? ...well then sir or maam...who is HE speaking to here...

>Gen 3:

>22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become
>as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he
>put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and
>eat, and live for ever:

>23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the
>garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was
>taken.

>24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east
>of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword
>which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree
>of life.

God the Holy Trinity is speaking, however, I noticed that you changed to bold "one of us" but failed to include "as", which if you leave it out would lead one to falsely conclude that He created us little gods, WHICH IS NOT TRUE. By including "as" it clearly is in agreement with the verses I used in my original post, that it is only in the likeness of God that mankind was created, NOT IN HIS DEITY. As I stated in my original post, our spirit is born dead, AND therefore if one never repents of sin and receives Jesus as LORD (which means: "the one who is Ruling and had the Right to RULE"), then that one remains Unsaved and certainly may be concidered still spiritually in the image of Satan. NO LIFE in one's spirit (born again) and truly one's destiny is the same as Satan's, the Lake of Fire.

God being ALL KNOWING knew that mankind would fall in the Garden of Eden. He also knew that from that point on all mankind would be born in sin with a dead spirit that needed to be brought to life by the Holy Spirit in order to be saved. God being a JUST God also knew that sin MUST be payed for.

Hebrews 9:22 (NKJV)
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

Therefore likewise, God knew that because of His standard of Holiness, only a Holy Blood Sacrafice would pay for the sins of mankind. He therefore knew that part of Himself would have to become Man (because only HE is Holy, and God being Eternal cannot die); therefore He by becoming a man, could lay down HIS life for mankind, because that is the only Holy Blood Sacrafice that there ever could be.

1 Samuel 2:2 (KJV)
2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

True all sins but one were paid for on the Cross, but if one Blashphemes (Rejects) the work of the Holy Spirit, which is to work on our hearts to get us to believe. Then that sin of Rejecting Jesus Christ as LORD, is the sin that everyone in Hell will be guilty of, including Satan.

Luke 12:10 (NKJV)
10 And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.

Salvation truly is a free gift, but we must reach out and receive it and Him or we will end up in the Lake of Fire.

John 1:12-13 (NKJV)
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Receive Him as what?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him,

Also the word "image" can be use to describe one's nature (lifestyle characteristics) as you pointed out. And as I pointed out we were all "once dead" spiritually just like Satan unable to obey God out of a pure motive. BUT, Praise the Lord, those of us that have become "Born Again", have been set free from that slavery to sin that is the nature of the dead spirit and Satan. And as our living spirit is fed the Word of God it will become stronger and stronger, eventually becoming dominant over the will of the Flesh, becoming more and more like Christ. Granted we will not become sinless until Our Lord takes us in the Rapture and gives us that glorified body that cannot even think sin.

Are there false Christians (tares) sown amoungst the true Christians (wheat). Absolutely! Do we pull them up and cast them out? Absolutely NOT! "Why?", because our LORD is in the business of turning "tares" into "wheat"! I was once a tare, but in March of 1978 after my third attempt at suicide, HE changed me, a tare, into wheat, a Born Again Christian.

Vol. Chaplain Orville

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

[quote="VCO"]

VCO · Alley Cat Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 178

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

[quote="VCO"][

VCO · Alley Cat Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 178

Isaiah 6:2-3 (NKJV)
2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
3 And one cried to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; The whole earth is full of His glory!"

Even the seraphim recognized Three Holies in this verse you used theseldomscene.

Pete · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:34 am Post subject:

VCO,
Your first problem is that you have assumed the trinity as Biblical by your background heritage rather than sound Biblical evidence.

Trying to prove the trinity by analogy rather than Biblical evidence is also a mistake. Analogies always lead to defining Modalism rather than Athanasianisim.

Your arguments, or “proofs,” are typical Trinitarian “proofs,” none of which hold up.
Genesis 1:26, for instance: “God” (Elohim) is not singular, and does not imply three, but is a compound noun equivalent to “family.” Family connotes many members, not just one or a specific number three. In a family, the Father is the head, the eldest son is the primary heir, and the wife produces other family members. Biblically, the wife equates to the church (ecclesia: called out ones). Gen. 1:26 makes perfect sense when understood, and it has nothing to do with proving the false doctrine of the trinity. It proves that God the Father is in the process of recreating himself. The use of “us” is no proof of trinity. The human family is constructed like the God family.

Matthew 28:19 is a later corrupt addition that has no merit. The concept of the trinity is nowhere taught in the Bible. Scripture acknowledges the Father and the Son only, and the Father is supreme in the God family. If you want to know who the God of the Bible is try 1 John 2:22-24 and 2 John 9-10.

1 John 2:22-24; “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. V.23”Whosoever that denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: But he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. V.24” Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye shall continue in the Son and in the Father.

2 John 9-10: “Whosoever transgesseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. V.10; If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

All the salutations of the epistles acknowledge the Father and Son only!

The Bible in many places describes God, and in every case it mentions only the Father and the Son – never a trinity that involves a third person Holy Ghost. The trinity is the invention of a political civil government that didn’t have a true Christian among them. Trinitarianism was conceived as a belief system in the fourth century to satisfy the political desires of Rome, and became civil law in the same sense as any other law of the Roman Empire, with severe penalties for noncompliance.

As I have said in the past, the original apostles would have had nothing to do with a religious council called by a Roman Emperor. Their authority came from Christ, not a pagan Emperor.

Pete · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:35 am Post subject:

double post.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6828 Location: USA

This has been moved to the appropriate forum.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

oh yes and chaplin...since you brought it up...you know numbers and all annd what they mean...can you show the seraphim were speaking to three somethings as opposed to declaring the glory of one something...

and...in john six 18...it says the jews sought to kill JESUS right....because they said HE broke the sabbath day and called GOD HIS FATHER....and JESUS said to the jews in vs 19...

"truly truly I say unto you.."

so are you saying HE was calling two of the jews true?...

according to the application of your arguement...if applied here....that is what it would say...but then again that would be a sillly thing to try and show cause context would show that is not the case...

where does context suggest that there are three and not one whose eternal glory is being declared....

like in the rev...rev4:8....and the four beast had each of them six wings(24 wings) about him and they were full of eyes within(within?), and they rest not day or night saying, holy holy holy LORD GOD almighty...which is(holy) and was(HOLY) and is to come(HOLY)....(read what JESUS said of HIMself in rev 1:8)....

showing that HIS glory and holiness is and was and will be forever....rather then speaking to three folks...but to HIM who sat on the throne...all worshiped HIM....till...

in charter 5 chaplin we see the LAMB who had been slain in the midst of the throne...and the sealed scroll was given to HIM for HE alone was worthy to open it...and HE took it out of the right hand of HIM that sat on the throne(heb1:2,1:13 GOD who said sit on MY right hand till I make your enemies you footstool)...and at that point...when HE did so...then they (the beasts and elders followed by thousands of thousand of thousands)singing praise to the LAMB(thus seeing 1 cor 15...the FATHER giving all glory and honor and praise to the SON)...then all of creation sings praise to them both(the LAMB being the only way to GOD)...then to finish the chapter the elders worship the one who lives forever and ever(rev1:18...another one of JESUS titles...)...