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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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 Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: Why the Mark of the Beast is Neccessary ! |
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The ONLY way for Christian people to get into heaven, is for the Mark of the Beast scenerio, to occur, FIRST.
Jesus Christ says that HE will come, for the church, AFTER the Mark of the Beast scenerio.
The Mark of the Beast scenerio, is to test the HIS people, who are living when Christ comes again the 2nd time to take HIS people back to heaven with Him.
When God sends to men warnings so important that they are represented as proclaimed by holy angels flying in the midst of heaven, He requires every person endowed with reasoning powers to heed the message.
The fearful judgments denounced against the worship of the beast and his image (Revelation 14:9-11), should lead all to a diligent study of the prophecies to learn what the mark of the beast is, and how they are to avoid receiving it.
But the masses of the people turn away their ears from hearing the truth and are turned unto fables (Secret Rapture theory, ect.).
The apostle Paul declared, looking down to the last days: "The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine." 2 Timothy 4:3.
That time has fully come.
The multitudes do not want Bible truth, because it interferes with the desires of the sinful, world-loving heart; and Satan supplies the deceptions which they love.....that is why the Secret Rapture theory has deceived so many in the Christian world.
The test for Christians during the Mark of the Beast scenerio will be 'Situation Ethics'.
In other words, when no man can buy or sell, what will the Christian do ?
Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Will the Christian resort to stealing, to be able to eat food, or drink water ?
Situation ethics !
Will they tell a little white lie, in order to save themselves from being put into prison or be killed ?
Situation ethics, again.
Jesus Christ showed what the Christian is to do, during times of severe persecution, by setting the example for the Christian is to follow (Matthew 4:1-10).
During the Mark of the Beast scenerio, it is the works of the individual Christian, that will be tested.....SEVERELY !!!
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2270
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Brother Surfer, what about Christians in previous generations? Why did they not have to take this test? Why did God make it easier for them to obtain eternal life than for those alive during your "mark of the beast scenario"?
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
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Officially approved in 451 |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2672
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Partly it is merely timing, certain things haven't happened until recently and this testing could not take place due to technological considerations, but those hurdles have been crossed with implantable chips and RFID ready to take over our commercial world.
I imagine a world wide economic depression, where huge amounts of people go starving even here in the US. Those compromisers will pop up like flies and "common sense" will prevail forcing people to accept that mark without thinking about the consequences. Forewarned is forearmed.
_________________
My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
Read the
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | | Brother Surfer, what about Christians in previous generations? Why did they not have to take this test? |
No One has ever been left out of the testing process !
Every temptation, is a test of loyalty for God, or against God.
Abraham's test stands out, as being the most severe, perhaps.
King David was tested, as was King Saul.....King Solomon.
Even such people as Lot's wife.....Ruth.....Ester, ect.
The whole Bible tells of the many...many people God tested.
Every single person on earth during Noah's time was tested, yet millions failed the test and died.
Adam & Eve were tested as to whether they would be worthy, of having eternal life.
Their failure doomed the human race, with a sinful nature, destined to die the 2nd death forever, UNLESS they consented to allow Jesus Christ to live out His sinless life in them, making them as sinless as He was, after being converted.
Jesus Christ was tested, MOST SEVERELY !!!
| Quote: |
Why did God make it easier for them to obtain eternal life than for those alive during your "mark of the beast scenario"? |
The Mark of the Beast scenario is any worship, contrary to what God has specified.
Ancient Israel dealt long with Idol worship, before they finally learned.
Idol worship was false worship......the Mark of the Beast, will be false worship.
ANYTHING that goes against God's commandments is symbolicly the Mark of the Beast.
Because the Bible says that the MB will be against God's commandments.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| yes...CHRISTians and believers around the world are being tested and killed for the gospel...just because we are cozy here...doesn't mean our generation has it so well...for many of our family have paid dearly for the gospel... |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | yes...CHRISTians and believers around the world are being tested and killed for the gospel...just because we are cozy here...doesn't mean our generation has it so well...for many of our family have paid dearly for the gospel... |
"The Constitution of the United States guarantees liberty of conscience.
Nothing is dearer or more fundamental.
Pope Pius IX, in his Encyclical Letter of August 15, 1854, said: `The absurd and erroneous doctrines or ravings in defense of liberty of conscience are a most pestilential error--a pest, of all others, most to be dreaded in a state.' The same pope, in his Encyclical Letter of December 8, 1864, anathematized `those who assert the liberty of conscience and of religious worship,' also 'all such as maintain that the church may not employ force.'
"The pacific tone of Rome in the United States does not imply a change of heart.
She is tolerant where she is helpless.
Says Bishop O'Connor: 'Religious liberty is merely endured until the opposite can be carried into effect without peril to the Catholic world.'. . . The archbishop of St. Louis once said: 'Heresy and unbelief are crimes; and in Christian countries, as in Italy and Spain, for instance, where all the people are Catholics, and where the Catholic religion is an essential part of the law of the land, they are punished as other crimes.'. . .
"Every cardinal, archbishop, and bishop in the Catholic Church takes an oath of allegiance to the pope, in which occur the following words: 'Heretics, schismatics, and rebels to our said lord (the pope), or his aforesaid successors, I will to my utmost persecute and oppose.'"--Josiah Strong, Our Country, ch. 5, pars. 2-4.
Do you know that the Supreme Court of the USA is comprised of mostly Catholics ?
NOTE: Courts are where Laws are made or abolished.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2270
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Zathrus wrote: | | Brother Surfer, what about Christians in previous generations? Why did they not have to take this test? |
No One has ever been left out of the testing process !
Every temptation, is a test of loyalty for God, or against God.
Abraham's test stands out, as being the most severe, perhaps.
King David was tested, as was King Saul.....King Solomon.
Even such people as Lot's wife.....Ruth.....Ester, ect.
The whole Bible tells of the many...many people God tested.
Every single person on earth during Noah's time was tested, yet millions failed the test and died. |
Brother Surfer, you are not answering my question. I am not asking about old testament saints. I am asking about Christians in other generations. And your topic in this thread is not "every temptation", but your "mark of the beast scenario" which I know you Adventists teach is not common to every generation, but is very soon to happen, in one specific generation, which I would think Adventists in our time are saying is this present generation.
You yourself posted this:
| Silver Surfer wrote: | "The pacific tone of Rome in the United States does not imply a change of heart.
She is tolerant where she is helpless.
Says Bishop O'Connor: 'Religious liberty is merely endured until the opposite can be carried into effect without peril to the Catholic world.'. |
Thereby you clearly admit that all American Christians, since this nation was born 231 years ago, have not had to take your "mark of the beast scenario" test. Most have willingly chosen to attend church on Sunday, which I know equates to failing your test, but none have been compelled to attend church on Sunday. So why were they not tested as you believe those in the "mark of the beast scenario (doesn't that word start to sound funny after you use it a few times?)" will be, to attend church on Sunday on pain of death?
You and your Adventist friends imagine yourselves martyrs for the commandments of God, yet none of you in the US, from the beginning of your religious organization, have had to attend church on Saturday at the risk of your life. You have not even taken your test. And since your organization started in the 1800's, many of you have gone to be with the Lord, never having taken this test. My question is why were they let off easy, and we, just ahead,according to Adventist teaching will be made to choose between attending Sunday worship services or dying?
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Ancient Israel dealt long with Idol worship, before they finally learned. |
This is a bit beside the point, but what on earth do you mean by this? When did ancient Israel ever learn, and turn from their idolatry? My Bible says a remnant, namely the believers in the early church, turned to the true worship of God (back on topic) by trusting in His only begotten Son, and so they, both Jew and Gentile, were revealed to be the true sons of God and God's true chosen people Israel. The rest did not learn, but were judged - killed or dispersed from their land.
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Matbe I need to clarify something.
There has to come a point in time where God says ENOUGH!
The sin problem must end right here, at a certain point in time, in which satan and all those who follow him are done, destined for the Lake of Fire, to be destroyed for all time and eternity.
AND, all those who follow Jesus Christ, are taken to heaven.
The Mark of the Beast (MB) is the appointed time in which every person on earth has made their final decision.
The following Bible verses put together correctly....tell what and how the end will come about.
#1.) Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
#2.) Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
# 3.) 1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not presede them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
# 4.) Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
# 5.) Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Can you put the pieces of the puzzle in the correct order ?
Would you like me to reveal what I believe ?
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2270
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Would you like me to reveal what I believe ? |
Sure. That is what the forum is here for.
If you haven't yet revealed what you believe, what have you been doing in the rest of this thread?
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | | Would you like me to reveal what I believe ? |
Sure. That is what the forum is here for.
If you haven't yet revealed what you believe, what have you been doing in the rest of this thread? |
SDA's (Seventh Day Adventist) are Christians, who believe the Bible !
Not all SDA's are true Christians.......just as anyone who calls themselves Christian, is a Christian.
I suppose that is why God did not name in the Bible, any certain denomination as being HIS, exclusively.
Jesus Christ had 12 disciples....yet, one was not a true disciple.
The name 'Adventist' refers to ANYONE who believes in the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.
Look up the word 'adventist' in the dictionary, if you don't believe me.
The 7th day, is the Lord's Day, according to the Bible, which again, SDA's believe.
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
One of the missions God gave the SDA church is to warn people about the Mark of the Beast (Revelation 14:9-12).
The Bible had identified the SDA church, not by name but by description.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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