How the Holy Spirit Leads Us.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

I am studying Romans 8:14-15 right now and found it interesting to note that the Holy Spirit leads us by persuasion and not the force of our will.

He persuades us by convicting of us of our sins and also by leading us into the Scriptures and to a closer knowledge of God through them.

There are many spirits out there and so this a good test of any spirit, is it leading us closer to God and His Word or away?

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

There seems to be a certain amount of disagreement at the phrase "spirit of bondage again to fear," among the commentators. Is it talking about the Holy Spirit convicting us through the Law of God and leading us to repentance? The King James uses a capital S with the second spirit in the sentence. Is this first spirit the Holy Spirit or a different spirit? That is the question.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

It can not be that the Holy Spirit leads us into bondage and fear. The SPirit of Christ does not condemn us. Perfect love casts out fear. The religious spirits of piety and forms of Godliness are false spirits that hold us down and keep us from walking in our new nature of victory over sin and death. The SPirit of Christ is freedom and life.

2Co 3:17 And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
_________________
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the FULL knowledge of Him.--Eph 1:17

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

So what is this spirit of bondage again to fear?

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

Another question:

Are unbelievers under this spirit of bondage again to fear or are they just oblivious to sin?

I don't seem to remember being worried about sin and bondage when I was an unbeliever.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

You may be right. When I read the last part of Chapter 7 verses 7 to 25 it seems that the Holy Spirit may be using the Law to convict us of Sin. I am looking into that. Is there a connection? I wonder.

Van · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:21 pm Post subject: Romans 8:14-15

"For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out Abba Father."

Question is this spirit that we received our born again spirit alive in Christ, or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

My answer is that we have received a new spirit, that is the new creature that is not inclined to sin, although since we are still in the flesh we must battle fleshly desires.

Because we were enslaved to sin, we lived in fear of wrath. But now we are forgiven and if God is for us, who can be against us?

As adopted sons of God, we strive to be a chip off the ol' block, and we draw near to the throne of God not in fear, but crying Abba, Father hold me and teach me your ways!

But enough for verse 15, lets turn our attention to verse 14.

For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.

If you are not indwelt, you are not adopted and you face God's wrath as an unsaved person.

The indwelt Spirit leads but does not compel, He convicts but the conviction is ours. We can quench the Spirit in three ways - turning away from prayer, turning away from the word, and turning away from fellow believers.

The purpose of the law is to lead men to Christ. To make us aware of our slavery to sin and thus under the law of works no man seeks God, no one understands, but all have turned aside into unrighteousness.

The word of God, brought to us by men inspired by the Holy Spirit includes the gospel and is convicting. The Holy Spirit leads indwelt believers and can influence anyone (saved or unsaved) of God's choosing.

The words of God are filled with power and when we receive them we can be changed, as we are convicted of our disobedence and and come to accept the truth of God's word.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

You are right the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and this is brought out in John 16:8.

Right now I am looking for the connection between the spirit of bondage again to fear brought out in Romans 8:14. Lloyd-Jones has asserted that this is the conviction of sin that causes a man to repent. He connects this with the man in Romans 7:7-25 where it seems here is a man who is under the conviction of sin but who has not yet responded by repenting. The Holy Spirit brings this fear of judgement as brought out in John 16:8 (He convicts of judgement) and so the man under conviction comes to see the necessity of a Savior.

Van · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:12 am Post subject:

Spirit of bondage leading to fear again.

I understand this to mean that before we were saved, we were in bondage to sin, and in this condition we lived in fear of death, the wages of sin, and the fear of punishment, God will recompense man for his deeds. Picture a man who is trying to please God through adherence to the Law, but fails because he is in bondage to sin. He is fearful of God, he knows he sins, but does not view God as his Father that has accepted him and promised to never leave him.

1 John 4:18 says, "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear,because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." But if our spirit loves God, we cry out Abba Father, and do not live in the fear that bondage to sin entails. Our bond of love as children of God casts out the fear, even though we still stumble and fall short, while in the flesh. Death, oh where is your sting!

I disagree that our conviction by the Holy Spirit is fear of God's punishment which leads to repentence. Instead, the Holy Spirit through the giving of the Law, convicts us that we are sinners and our lives are not satisfactory, we should not be complacent, for we are disobedant to God. When Peter was preaching in Acts, the converts were convicted of their rejection of the Lamb of God, and this by the power of the gospel through the words of Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit.

In summary, John 16:8 says the Holy Spirit will convict the world concerning:

1. Sin, by works under the Law sinners do not seek God for God is holy and we are sinners separated from God by our sin.

2. Righteousness, the Holy Spirit will empower the apostles such that they will be able to speak for God concerning how to become reconciled to God, how to obtain the righteousness of God through Jesus Christ.

3. Judgment, for God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world but that the world should be saved through Him, he who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe in Him is judged already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

Well at least we agree that when Peter preached at Pentecost people were convicted by the Holy Spirit. They cryed out "men and brethren what shall we do".

Peter then told them to repent and they did.

Van · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:51 am Post subject:

Final comment, your view seems to restrict the work of the Holy Spirit to the message of John the baptist, i.e. people confessing their sins and being baptized with water. After John's baptism, they were still in bondage that entails fear. Our conviction is not just to turn from wickedness, but to turn to Christ, to accept him. We are not driven by our fear of punishment only, but by our quest for righteousness.
The folks at Penecost were not only convicted of their sins, they were convicted that they had rejected God's Savior and asked in effect what should we do to get right with God. Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ was the answer.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

I did not mean to imply that I don't believe in the rest of the process. To me the process has to be discussed in steps even though these things seem to happen almost all at once in reality. Some of them anyway.

This is how I see the process.

Someone filled with the Holy Spirit preaches.

Through the preaching they are convicted of their sin. Which implys that because the preacher is filled with the Holy Spirit that He is acting through the preacher and his words which are from God's word.

They repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and are given the Holy Spirit also then the same day or later they are baptized.

vsjb34 · Fierce Poodle Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 281

To clarify the above I should say "they" means the people being preached to are convicted of their sin.

gswisher · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 421