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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Hi kejonn,
| kejonn wrote: | | Self-defense yes, but also defense of others. Particularly police because I know that the military can be used to manipulate world situations. |
Well, so can the police, though I understand what you are saying.
| kejonn wrote: | | Another instance could be bodyguards in some situations. Our company (US based) has some facilities in other countries and when US employees go to these places, they are often accompanied by bodyguards in certain public places (not the plants themselves). |
Certainly.
| kejonn wrote: | | But even so, I think those in the military can be serving a noble cause if they truly feel they are doing it for the freedom of their fellow man. I dislike killing or even harming in any other fashion, but I realize too that there are many people with dishonorable intentions in this world who thrive on death and destruction. Or at least they are oblivious to this in their pursuit of power. |
Well, I appreciate the authorities over us who provide us with protection. I just personally don't think Christians should be a part of that though we are to be good citizens as much as we are able.
| kejonn wrote: | | I often hear people say that the men and women in he Middle East serving in the US military are protecting "our" freedom. I disagree, and I get the idea that you disagree as well since you have become a conscientious objector. I also disagree that US presence in the ME is preventing terrorists from striking here. |
Well, I'm not a CO based on the ME; I'm a CO based on my belief that Christians are citizens of God's kingdom and are sojourning here (peacefully) until the establishing of his earthly kingdom. I don't get involved in politics at all.
| kejonn wrote: | | However, I do not call these men and women "evil" because who am I to judge them? They put their life on the line everyday. They obviously have a better idea of what is going on there and I'm sure you could relate much more as well. I don't think I could do it, because I feel guilty when I accidently run over a squirrel with my car! Goodness knows what feelings I would have if I ever had to harm someone. |
I agree that we are not to judge those who are in the military or other govt entity.
| kejonn wrote: | | My whole purpose when I started participating in this thread was to show that people have no right in judging what others do unless it can be shown that their motives and/or actions are definitely wrong. If you choose the way of non-participation in government on any level, that is your choice. But don't try to berate the level of spirituality of someone who does not feel the same. I freely admit that I struggle with spiritual bigots because I've seen way too much of it in my life. IMO, it is one of the largest causes of people turning away from Christianity. Some people are struggling to serve God and they don't need people telling them how wrong or how spiritually inadequate they are. They need love and encouragement. That can come on the form of a rebuke from time to time, but not without a way of helping them overcome the issue you are pointing out to them. God chastises those He loves when they err, but He's ready to take them back openly too. We can follow His example. |
Sounds like an honest opinion. I have no problem with it.
God bless,
2P |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: |
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[quote="kejonn
| Quote: | | And what WAS the purpose? I didn't see any scriptural evidence anywhere in any of your responses to me, just insults. Can't you at least try parables? |
for what prupose....the verses and scripture have been shown you here...i read them...are you saying you wish for a repeat...look kejonn...we know you have a reading comprehension problem...you prove that enough here...
| Quote: | | I've yet to see one instance of why I am wrong |
then you deny the word of GOD over your own silliness....you have been shown wrong...any who hvae read have seen you have been shown wrong...and all you can do is stick your head in the sand with you fingers in your ears and scream...no i am not...no i am not....totally disregarding all the mounds of scripture given to you that dispalys your folly... 
. | Quote: | | First TBax and now you, all words and yet you never address what I am advocating: defense and protection as a noble cause. |
give a scri-pture to support it sir...there is none...you are trying and failing to make an argument that allows you to act violently and say it is alright...
there is no seperation of violence in scripture sir....all is wrong and no quilifiers to justify any...show us now if that is the case sir...you can't...just more babble about how good you feel if you can fight...
| Quote: | | Instead they cloud the issue and start trying to insult me. |
 oh poor little kejonn being picked on again... ....if you do not wish to be corrected sir...then don't tramp off into the error you are demonstrating you are so fond of...
| Quote: | | And you have also convinced me that you don't know what he would do scripturally either |
i am not hte one out here rewriting it to fit my purpose sir...that is your own babble onianism...and HE shows us what HE would do...and all you have shown is you have not read enought to properly discuss it....the response of others that consisantly shred you silliness proves that...
every point you made has been completely refuted by scripture ...and all you can respond with is lil' keeejooonie gettin' picked on...
| Quote: | So I guess that makes us even  . |
whatever you need to tell yourslf to make you feel better kejonn...
| Quote: | | Why? You haven't participated much beyond telling TBax that he has made good posts and then tried to provoke me. |
once again you show you cannot read sir...and are unread in the scriptures...
| Quote: | | How will I find your answer when you have yet to provide one? |
whatever excuses you need to make kejonn to keep up the charade of pretending to know what you are saying...
| Quote: | | And I responded to each of the scriptures in kind. |
a complete lie from hades....all liars will be cast into the lake of fire sir....
I | Quote: | | cannot help that TBax (or you) did not like that the scriptures did not support his position in showing I was wrong about my position of defending and protecting. |
you have not shown violence to protect right sir...till you do none need to disprove it...
| Quote: | | I asked you to provide scripture not opinion. |
 ...i love it when i write scripture not labeled and people who show there ignorance want to look smart and say...can you show scripture for that...
| Quote: | | Opinions are like armpits. You know the rest. |
yess...the rest being you need to wear deodorant...
| Quote: | | Really? So you don't suppose that someone could take such a whip and beat you to a blood pulp with it? |
oh yes sir...and one could take a chair and do the same...you see you display a constant ignorance again...for they had whips to whip people...they are not and were not made like a whip of chords used to drive cattle....please at least study the subject before you speak....not doing so is why you look like a babble onian...
[quote]Hmm, anything can be a weapon if used as such. Again, why did he need this "herding tool" at all?
again you cannot read so good...for the passage itself tells you there were cattle in the temple sir...that is what a herding whip is for sir...to drive cattle in the proper direction sir.... 
| Quote: | | bEcause he showed that there are some occasions where some things are intolerable. |
yes...cattle sold in the church did seem to irrate him
| Quote: | | And I'm so glad you think I'm worth it. Too bad the rest of your response doesn't leave me feeling so "loved" . |
if you base your life and theology on how you feel kejonn then i know why you are so in error on your doctrine...
i cannot help the fact you have a victim complex as you have are have been showing sir......
A | Quote: | | t least Forrest was entertaining. You, not so much so |
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once again you think bible discussion is about entertainment....so you admit you have no real interest here for good then...just to try and be a showman...like many modern churches and con men claiming YAHSUAH's(?) names is guess...
| Quote: | | So you say. But then again, maybe you will feel better after some sleep. At least you might not be so confused. |
no confusion on this end...the bible says one thing....kejonn babbles another...plain enough to any reading...
| Quote: | | No mention of why Yahshua told them to buy swords again. What good are swords? |
i love to see a loud mouth wallow...
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Why not carry a celery stick instead? At least if you get hungry... |
celery is good...but can cause spontanous abortion in pregnant woman...so be careful when you eat it ma'am...
| Quote: | | That explains much. |
yes...for JESUS said HE better not come back and find you sleeping sir...but go ahead...you may have found a loophole that allows you ...for you sure are snoring with every post you write sir...loud annoying long boring snors...
so you say you can't then...we know that sir...that is why we are challengoing you...for you can't show what you are babling cause it is not there...sir...
| Quote: | | See, you just showed your true salt, and what you are all about. |
judge not that ye be not judge...is that your salt showing sir?...and know this...
heb 10:24 let us consider one anotherto provoke one another to love and to good works.
so yes sir...provocation is why i am here...to provoke you to disregard the babble you hold and grab the truth in love....for you post reek of hate filled violence sir ...imho.. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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[quote="tss to keeejonnie in the tri forum" ] | Quote: | you are the one who brought up homo's sir...and scientology...sorry if your nose get busted because your own plan backfired sir...just your own wickedness found you out is all....no use for you to snot and snivel about it now sir...
if you wish to discuss the trinity...we can talk about it uninterupted in the one on one forum... |
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kejonn
Show Poodle
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | [quote="tss to keeejonnie in the tri forum" ] | Quote: | you are the one who brought up homo's sir...and scientology...sorry if your nose get busted because your own plan backfired sir...just your own wickedness found you out is all....no use for you to snot and snivel about it now sir...
if you wish to discuss the trinity...we can talk about it uninterupted in the one on one forum... |
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Seems I am out of quarters and my piggy bank is empty, so I can no longer plug silver in the machine and play your games. I could go on forever, but I no longer wish to further hijack this thread in order to answer your many insults. You have shown your (lack of) value here, so run along and pester someone else who feels that Christians should constantly berate others (pull out that pocket mirror, look in it) in order to inflate their self-worth. My feet are dusty and I feel the need to cleanse them.
As to the trinity discussion, why would I want to debate you? Your debates turn into insults after 1-2 responses so it would be of no value to anyone but yourself. I suppose you enjoy belittling the cause of Christ but I find no pleasure in it.
_________________
Yasna 30.9 - So may we be like those making the world progress toward perfection; May God and the Divine Spirits help us and guide our efforts through Truth; For a thinking man is where Wisdom is at home. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| "my little runaway....runrunrunrunrunaway"...dale shannon(?).... |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone with a differing belief that they talk about can be accused of judging others.
"Oh, I don't believe as you so I am not pleasing God according to you?"
That is why that is a lame tactic. It could be used almost anywhere in these discussions. 
Also, people traveling to a certain destination should not get upset at the one who knows how to get there and tells them they are on the wrong road. 
Rom 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge;
Sincerity isn't enough. Accurate knowledge is required. If someone reveals this accurate knowledge to you, is it a proper responce to say "quite judging others"?
Luke 13:24 “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able,
To warn those missing the mark is an act of love. For many will seek to get in but will not be able. 
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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Dust
Big Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 959
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Alright settle down.....
Let's finally bring this all back around to the subject line....
Psalm 82 states.....
I said you are gods/elohim, children of the Most High.
Brothers, if we are indeed born-again, we've become children of the Most High; thus it is our responsibility as stated in Psalm 82 to.....
3 Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
Some have stated they will uphold these responsibilities at all costs.
Others indicate they will not uphold these at the cost of their own pacifism.
TBax made an excellent point regarding the JW missions to dangerous areas that do indeed have weak and fatherless, poor and oppressed, and needy, who need help. These JW men and woman risk there lives upholding these responsibilities while maintaining their pacifist beliefs. I respect and honor them for their efforts, and I see no less cost (or potential cost) for them, than one who would defend and/or rescue the weak, fatherless, poor, oppressed, and needy in a military effort.
_________________
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| if our weapons are not carnel but spiritual...then it is not speaking of weapons of this world.....and our enemy is not flesh and blood...but dark spiritual powers...in high places.... |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Dust,
| Dust wrote: | | Others indicate they will not uphold these at the cost of their own pacifism. |
Correction. At the cost of betraying Jesus' teachings. 
| Dust wrote: | | These JW men and woman risk there lives upholding these responsibilities while maintaining their pacifist beliefs. I respect and honor them for their efforts, and I see no less cost (or potential cost) for them, than one who would defend and/or rescue the weak, fatherless, poor, oppressed, and needy in a military effort. |
WOW. I appreciate what you said here. I must point out that the difference is that my brothers are following Jesus command to preach to others about the good news of the kingdom. Jesus never indicated we should fight for our countries or be part of a group that kills if the cause seems justified to us. Jesus' teaching are quite contrary to that. Jesus will take care of the justified cause of killing the wicked.
Matt 24:14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
I am not saying being part of the military is necessarily dishonorable. I am sure many individualls are very honorable and are convinced they are doing the right thing, and they are self sacrificing. It is just, in line with pleasing God, it is not in accord with accurate knowledge. Knowing who controlls these governments, and where these governments are headed, Christians would not try to be a part of them. Otherwise they may receive the same destiny. That is one reason we are to be no part of the world.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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Dust
Big Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 959
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yes well, we've discussed/debated, stammered, and focused on the division between us, and we will probably return there as well, but for now I'll rest in our commonality.
btw....I declare you the winner of the debate you are having in the 'Did Christ's "glory" exist before he was raised?' thread.
Good job!
_________________
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| me too...amen!!... |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:57 am Post subject: |
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WOW! Thanks.
Later.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: | btw....I declare you the winner of the debate you are having in the 'Did Christ's "glory" exist before he was raised?' thread.
Good job! |
Hmm, I'd love to know your criteria for "winner". As I told TBax, this isn't some kind of game in my mind, though it seems it may be to you all. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:16 am Post subject: |
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don't act like a sore loser... ...
i will tell you what i believe by the words he wins...it means his post contained more truth in proper order according to the bible than others did...therefore he won the discussion and shown his view more trutful and worthy of acceptance than his opposers sir...who opposed themselves really...
that is what i was meaning though i cannot speak for dust.... |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Hi TSS,
| theseldomscene wrote: | | don't act like a sore loser... ... |
I wasn't.
| TSS wrote: | i will tell you what i believe by the words he wins...it means his post contained more truth in proper order according to the bible than others did...therefore he won the discussion and shown his view more trutful and worthy of acceptance than his opposers sir...who opposed themselves really...
that is what i was meaning though i cannot speak for dust.... |
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. |
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