Christian Communism?

medbh4805 · Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: Christian Communism?

I'm not sure if this is in the right forum...

I recently found this article on wikipedia about "Christian Communism."

I've read Marx and it all seems a bit far for me...but considering so many Christians hold very conservative views...
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Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Hi medbh4805
Difficult to disconnect communism in theory from the reality, but fundamentally there is nothing evil about sharing property:

Acts 2:42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43 And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44 And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45 And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Although the background to this is probably that the believers were being excluded from the welfare system administered through the synagogues. Which is what the parents of the man born blind were too scared to open their mouths in John (John 9 was it?). So what happened in Acts 2 probably refers to the same issue as Acts 6 and the widow's list. It's basically a description of the early church rushing to fill the vacuum of synagogue-administered welfare, not full-blown communism.

God bless
Steven
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RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

I think the reality is that communism is extreme left (liberal) quite the opposite of conservative is it not?

Christian conservatives generally dislike the government controlling their lives and their money. We much prefer to give what we have and earn to those in need ourselves rather than have it taken away from us and distributed.

In essence; 'christian communism' is a philosophy of love and sacrifice from the individual and not a government mandated requirement.
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45degreeN · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject:

Actually in the 19th century there were many experimental communities called communes, some were even Christian like the shakers. One at a time they all failed for one reason or another, but my guess is the "fallen human" factor.

Sometimes it is the issue over authority (who has it and who doesn't), other times it is relationships the members had or didn't have (shakers were separated sexually).

Long before Marx ever even thought about writing Das Kapital. People were doing this commune thing on a small scale.
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Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

45degreeN · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:22 am Post subject:

Your lack of study of this phenomenon is showing, Trinity. Most were nonsectarian. The single most over riding feature of their participants was their optimism about human nature, with only a very few chose an authoritarian figure to lead them (making them cult like). Most used a populist form of democracy to rule and some became wealthy before they passed into the history books.

Obviously the cult of Mormonism for instance came into being during that time but they were not truly a commune they were a theocracy with private property.
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Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

45degreeN · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:49 am Post subject:

Well Trinity it seems that communism took a turn toward the ignoble side after Marx took the word and made it anathema. By the way what we used to have in Russia and China was "state capitalism" not true communism. Neither country really got Marx right in their practices.

The practices of Soviet Russia never met the ideals of Marxism, they stopped far short of what Marx would have liked if he had stayed around.

Your question about contemporary communism is answered only in the negative. The Kibbutzim in Israel are examples of this check them out.
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Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

45degreeN · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:54 am Post subject:

Actually it was never my assertion that there were any examples of CONTEMPORARY conservative Christian communes, I was merely offering some historical perspectives. I was a history major in college.

There is no scriptural imperative toward communism even if there might have been an example during the first few years after the birth of the church in Acts. Mostly the gentile churches were a phenomenon of the middle and upper middle classes, (high level trades people and small business people, with a few of the wealthy especially in Rome) not the poor. With the exception of the "poor Ebionites" in Jerusalem, there just weren't many poor Christians. It was those poor Ebionites that are the only examples of communism in early Christian history.
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Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

45degreeN · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:47 am Post subject:

While slavery might be cited by more people than "states rights", it was not the front line reason for the war. The northern states were just as anti-black as the south and while there were pockets of anti-slavery sentiment (in the north) they hardly filled the daily papers with stories.

One little quote from the 19th century speaks volumes:Before the war we (America) were "united" states after the war we were the "united states." Federalism grew by leaps and bounds after the tyranny of "states rights" was crushed. We are not a collection of states we are a country with states within it.

I'm not sure just why you bring this us in this thread though.
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Plotinus · Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:33 am Post subject:

45degreeN · Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject:

It seemed that the shakers lasted the longest also, dont know if it was the separation of the sexes or what but the last of the shakers died only about 8-10 years ago.

Re:furniture. Mass production methods only produced cheaper priced furniture not better furniture. Even now custom quality furniture is highly prized and high in price.
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