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IF GOD COULD SAVE EVERYONE - WOULD HE?


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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189


PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby wrote:
Hi atoz,
Universal Salvation
If you believe it here's 49 pages & thats just one thread, & no I won't unlock it, but you can read it if you want. You should have it done in a day or so!

God wants those that are seeking Him.
I don't believe He's going to fish them out of the lake of fire. Confused or disgusted


Thanx, Nobby.
Will read it subsequently.

Yes, all men seek God.
Acts 17:
24God that made the world and all things therein, ... 27That they should seek the Lord,
if haply they might feel after him, and find him,
though he be not far from every one of us:

28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

But no man can seek God [/b]and find Him unless and until God wants that man to find him!

Nobby, isn't clear that the ONLY way God cd be right NOT FAR or right NEAR to me and I can't find him is because he is hiding from me?smile

So we also have:
John 6:
44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45It is written in the prophets,
And they shall be all taught of God.
Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, [when the Father revealed Himself to that man] cometh unto me.

So?

So how can God justifiably destroy people for not finding Him if HE prevents that man from finding him, without also condemning Himself for preventing the finding?

see?

Therefore, God can not and so will not destroy any person simply because when God shows any person how to love and how many benefits we get from Love, there will be NO man who will turn away from WHAT he was born to be and born to live by!

see?

So it's a no lose, win-win scenario.

If God ever sent anyone to the lake of fire, God wd have been defeated.....wd have been defeated by Himself and wd have defeated himself!
That is never going to happen.
see?

with Love,
atoz
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Nobby
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atoz, guess you never read about the White Stone Judgment! (the last judgement) What did they do to tho's who's names were not found in the Lambs book of life?

Maybe i can post more later, gotta go to bed! Very Happy
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bitterlily
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Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby wrote:
atoz, guess you never read about the White Stone Judgment! (the last judgement) What did they do to tho's who's names were not found in the Lambs book of life?

Maybe i can post more later, gotta go to bed! Very Happy


Hi Nobby,

Your statement here makes it obvious to me that whatever US material you have been reading does not represent my views, otherwise you wouldn't have asked this question of atoz.

I will read the US link you gave anyway so that I can compare it with my views. Could I aslo ask you to read Creation's Jubilee by Stephen E. Jones. It will give you a more thorough understanding of what it is I believe. I am sure you will find similarities to US but I am convinced by your statement that you will also find differences.

I look forward to hearing what you think after you have read it.

Cheers
Bitterlily
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38

As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby wrote:
atoz, guess you never read about the White Stone Judgment! (the last judgement) What did they do to tho's who's names were not found in the Lambs book of life?

Maybe i can post more later, gotta go to bed! Very Happy


Hi Nobby,

U probably meant White Throne Judgment?smile
Sleep will do that!smile

All that is what would hapen if God did not love all mankind as himself...God calling those things that are not as tho they are. Rom 4:17.


In other words, all the names NOT written in the Lamb of Love's Book of Love is NO names!
see?

I know...it's a trick.

see Psalm 139: David's perfect Hatred for his enemies is perfect ZERO% Hatred!....simply because his Love was also perfect: 100% Love for all friends and all enemies!

I look fwd to hearing from you.

in Love,
atoz
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bitterlily
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Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby wrote:

If you believe it here's 49 pages & thats just one thread, & no I won't unlock it, but you can read it if you want. You should have it done in a day or so!

God wants those that are seeking Him.
I don't believe He's going to fish them out of the lake of fire. Confused or disgusted


Hi Nobby,

I was quite surprised when I clicked on the US link you provided to discover that it was part of this forum. I was expecting it to be a thorough refute of Universal Salvation. Let me rephrase that in case you misunderstand what I am saying. I was expecting a book or lengthy article from a christian who has thoroughly investigated ALL THE SCRIPTURES that christians like myself base their US perspective on, then I expected to see a point by point refute showing exactly how US believers are misinterpreting scripture or twisting scripture. The link you provided didn't do this. In fact, in some cases it appeared to me that the Anti-US posters were the ones twisting scripture. For example:

Here are some twisted statements made by an Anti-US poster about the following verse:

Quote:
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1Co 15:22


Anti-US post 1)"The passage you sited might only refer to all "in Christ", and not to those not "in Christ." "

Anti-US post 2)"All those in Adam will die, all those in Christ will live. The key is that not all who are in Adam are in Christ."

I would be interested to know if you read this verse the same way as this Anti-US poster.

Anyway, I hope you read the book I mentioned. Please tell me if you don't intend to, so that I can get on with other discussions and leave you in peace.

Cheers
Bitterlily
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In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38

As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2
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bitterlily
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops, sorry this keeps happening, double ups. Please delete.
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38

As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2


Last edited by bitterlily on Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nobby
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atoz wrote:
Hi Nobby,

U probably meant White Throne Judgment?smile
Sleep will do that!smile

Yep! Embarassed Embarassed

I will believe as I do & you can blieve as you do, that doesn't mean that I don't love you or respect you.
It's just to tell you that I disagree & that I should have never brought it up! This is my last word on it! Very Happy
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holly102869
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Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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Location: Central, Florida USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel God can do anything he wants but what does he want?

He gave us free will for a reason.
He wants us to choose life.
Follow his directions and we will have life.
In choosing him we choose life.

God is like all of us he wants our love and respect.

Why give us the Bible? That is if we all were going to go to Heaven. Why send us Jesus?

God gave us the Garden of Eden. We took it away by not believing in him. He will give it back but, only to the ones who truely seek it.

There are reasons behind everything trust in God and one day you will understand everything.

Holly
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby wrote:
atoz wrote:
Hi Nobby,

U probably meant White Throne Judgment?smile
Sleep will do that!smile

Yep! Embarassed Embarassed

I will believe as I do & you can blieve as you do, that doesn't mean that I don't love you or respect you.
It's just to tell you that I disagree & that I should have never brought it up! This is my last word on it! Very Happy


Perfect, Nobby!Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

In perfect Love so that any other agreement or disagreement does NOT matter,
atoz
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bitterlily
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Holly,

Welcome, welcome!

holly102869 wrote:
I feel God can do anything he wants but what does he want?
The following verse is not just God's desire it is an Oath, and He will perform it

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Isa 45:23

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that [u][b]every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Php 2:9-11

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; [u][b]Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:3-4[/b][/u]

holly102869 wrote:
Why give us the Bible? That is if we all were going to go to Heaven.


Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, AND I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE: Isa 46:9-10

holly102869 wrote:
Why send us Jesus?
To save us all from our sins, which was the result of giving us free will.

Kind Regards
Bitterlily
_________________
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:37-38

As a lily among thorns, So is my love among the daughters. Son 2:2
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nana
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Joined: 01 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings ,

Quote:
holly102869 wrote:
Why send us Jesus?
To save us all from our sins, which was the result of giving us free will.


This is exactly right! Christ took the sins of the world.

I John 2:2, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

John 1:29, "...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

John 4:42, "...for we have heard him ourselves, and kn ow that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world."

Every man was forgiven of sin, (saved) at the cross, both Jew and Gentile, but to walk in the victory of this magnificent salvation one must believe to inherit everlasting life.

In Christ, Judy
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Silver Surfer
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the thought: "Once Saved, Always Saved" ...is a variation of Universal Salvation ?

By that I mean, that both are of the attitude that heaven is your home, no matter whether you obey God, or disobey God.
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lone-traveler
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

picture this:

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Exd 14:16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry [ground] through the midst of the sea.

Mat 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.

Mat 14:26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

Mar 6:47 And when even was come, the ship was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land.

Rev 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and [his] left [foot] on the earth,

what is glass made out of?

Glass
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A piece of naturally formed glass, ObsidianGlass is a noncrystalline material that can maintain indefinitely, if left undisturbed, its overall form and amorphous microstructure at a temperature below its glass transition temperature. Glass synthesis is achieved by quenching a glass-forming liquid through its glass transition temperature sufficiently fast to avoid the formation of a regular crystal lattice, producing an amorphous solid. Amorphous solids may also be formed by methods other than melt quenching, such as vapour deposition or the sol-gel method. Silica glass may be produced by using sand as a raw material (or "quartz sand") that contains almost 100 % crystalline silica in the form of quartz. Glass is sometimes created naturally from volcanic magma. This glass is called obsidian, and is usually black with impurities. Obsidian is a raw material for flintknappers, who have used it to make extremely sharp knives since the stone age. The known manufacture of glass dates back to 3000 BC and glass technology is widely used in the modern day in household objects such as bottles, mirrors, windows and light bulbs. The most common method for glass pane production is using molten tin, where the molten glass floats on top of the perfectly flat molten tin, thus giving it the name "float glass". The refractive, reflective and transmission properties of glass make specific chemical compostitions suitable for technological applications such as optics and optoelectronics.

Wow made me think of the rainbow, this next verse:

The manipulation of heated glass enables it to be shaped into different forms and the incorporation of additives at the manufacturing stage produces different colors which enable glass to be used as an art medium for display purposes.

Gen 32:12 And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

so what happens when the sand is heated up?
It turns to glass..cool..

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

now you see that sea of glass is mingled with fire..hmm..

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast [it] into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luk 3:17 Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

where is "his floor"?

Mic 4:12 But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.

unquenchable..this is weird:

Greek for G762 ἄσβεστος Transliteration
asbestos
Pronunciation

ä'-sbe-stos (Key)

Outline of Biblical Usage 1) unquenched, unquenchable

a) of eternal hell fire to punish the damned

Asbestos
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fibrous asbestos on muscovite
Asbestos
Asbestos
Blue asbestos (crocidolite) from Wittenoom, Western Australia. The ruler is 1 cm.
Blue asbestos showing the fibrous nature of the mineralThe word Asbestos is derived from a Greek adjective meaning inextinguishable. It is distinguished from other minerals by the fact that its crystals form long, thin fibers. Deposits of asbestos are found throughout the world. The primary sites of commercial production are: the Commonwealth of Independent States, Canada, Brazil, Zimbabwe, Russia and South Africa.

The Greeks termed asbestos the "miracle mineral" because of its soft and pliant properties, as well as its ability to withstand heat. Asbestos was spun and woven into cloth in the same manner as cotton. It was also utilized for wicks in sacred lamps. Romans likewise recognized the properties of asbestos and it is thought that they cleaned asbestos tablecloths by throwing them into fire.[citation needed] Confused or disgusted

Asbestos became increasingly popular among manufacturers and builders in the late 19th century due to its resistance to heat, electricity and chemical damage, sound absorption and tensile strength. When asbestos is used for its resistance to fire or heat, the fibers are often mixed with cement or woven into fabric or mats. Asbestos is used in brake shoes and gaskets for its heat resistance, and in the past was used on electric oven and hotplate wiring for its electrical insulation at elevated temperature, and in buildings for its flame-retardant and insulating properties, tensile strength, flexibility, and resistance to chemicals.

asbestos...unquenchable..fire resistant..
mixed with
cement..hmm..

cement:

Cement

In the most general sense of the word, cement is a binder, a substance which sets and hardens independently, and can bind other materials together. The name "cement" goes back to the Romans who used the term "opus caementitium" to describe masonry which resembled concrete and was made from crushed rock with burnt lime as binder. The volcanic ash and pulverized brick additives which were added to the burnt lime to obtain a hydraulic binder were later referred to as cementum, cimentum, cäment and cement. Cements used in construction are characterized as hydraulic or non-hydraulic.

The most important use of cement is the production of mortar and concrete - the bonding of natural or artificial aggregates to form a strong building material which is durable in the face of normal environmental effects.

mortar..where is that... Confused or disgusted

Pro 27:22 Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, [yet] will not his foolishness depart from him.

just doing some "scientific" investigation.. Wink

cool stuff huh?

hugs
lone
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189


PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver Surfer wrote:
I wonder if the thought: "Once Saved, Always Saved" ...is a variation of Universal Salvation ?

By that I mean, that both are of the attitude that heaven is your home, no matter whether you obey God, or disobey God.


Ss,

Heaven is our home no matter if we obey God or disobey Him, as long as we obey God's Supreme Law Of Love so we are obedient in Love, and so we can be disobedient in Love.

Based on 2 Cor 12:10, we are then obedient even when disobedient, and doubly obedient when we obey.

In the Obedience of Love forever and for always,
Atoz
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Silver Surfer
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="atoz"]
Silver Surfer wrote:
I wonder if the thought: "Once Saved, Always Saved" ...is a variation of Universal Salvation ?

By that I mean, that both are of the attitude that heaven is your home, no matter whether you obey God, or disobey God.

Quote:

Ss,

Heaven is our home no matter if we obey God or disobey Him, as long as we obey God's Supreme Law Of Love so we are obedient in Love, and so we can be disobedient in Love.


THEN ...you reject the following Bible verses ?

Galations 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.





Quote:

Based on 2 Cor 12:10, we are then obedient even when disobedient, and doubly obedient when we obey.
This Bible verse is misunderstood in relationship to the rest of the Bible.

BECAUSE.....why did God punish people in the OT for their disobedience if it was not important ?

Another extreme which Satan has led the people to adopt is entirely to overlook the justice of God, and the threatenings in His Word, and to represent Him as being all mercy, so that not one will perish, but that all, both saint and sinner, will at last be saved in His kingdom.
Quote:

In the Obedience of Love forever and for always,
Atoz
Obedience and Love go hand in hand, there is absolutely no separation there.

Whe a person disobeys God's commandments, it shows they don't love God.....the Bible proves that fact over and over again, through the whole Bible.

Obedience ....is the ONLY way the Bible shows that a person loves God.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
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Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
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