Water Baptism is ESSENTIAL to salvation!

rjustice7 · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:38 am Post subject: ragman13...

ragman 13

If you read some of the posts I have left FoC, you will find my stand on things like dying before baptism. I agree fully with Steven3 so if you read his post, you'll understand my beliefs as well on the matter. Also no God did not send Paul to baptize, as I said before he sent Him to preach the word and bring people to a point of salvation. However baptism is part of this, or Christ most likely would have not commanded His disciples to baptize in Matthew 28:19. If baptism is not essential, why do it in the first place? Doesn't it seem kind of unnecessary? Also I didn't prove your point in Acts 10 unless you agree with me. The point was that if Cornelius and his house were saved after receiving the Holy Ghost, then why did Peter baptize them at all? Apparantly Peter saw a need to do this, and frequently there was a need to do this all throughout the time of the early church. Just look at a few examples...

Acts 2:38 (where it was first preached by Peter)
Acts 8:16-17
Acts 10:46-48
Acts 19:3-5
Acts 22:16

Either before they received the Holy Ghost, or in some cases after, they were always baptized. I also explained the situation Peter was in at Cornelius's house, and about the 6 Jewish bretheren. And that all checks out because when good old Pete comes home you bet the council approaches him about baptizing the gentiles. Peter tells them that the Holy Ghost also fell upon the gentiles. Then they rejoice together. Now what if the gentiles had not received the Holy Ghost before being baptized? It would have been a bad situation for our friend Peter.

I know that we have different beliefs on the matter, so I'm just describing mine to you. What I post will show you what I believe and why scripturally. Your opinions and beliefs will always be respected in my eyes even if we don't see eye-to-eye. Very Happy

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Hi SealedEternal

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6816 Location: USA

I've been thinking about baptism just recently and started thinking about the physical and spiritual ramifications of it.

Consider the ceremonial applications of washing before entering the temple and other ideas of ceremonial cleansing. Water was the mode and the result was a ceremonial cleanliness before approaching worship of God.

Baptism is very much like this is it not? The use of water in the act of cleansing? Let us look then to 'water':

Isa 8:7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord brings upon them the waters of the River [Euphrates], strong and many--even the king of Assyria and all the glory [of his gorgeous retinue]; and it will rise over all its channels, brooks, valleys, and canals and extend far beyond its banks; [Isa. 7:17.]

Isa 12:3 Therefore with joy will you draw water from the wells of salvation.

Isa 49:10 They will not hunger or thirst, neither will mirage [mislead] or scorching wind or sun smite them; for He Who has mercy on them will lead them, and by springs of water will He guide them. [Rev. 7:16, 17.]

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleanness; and from all your idols will I cleanse you.

Pro 5:15 Drink waters out of your own cistern [of a pure marriage relationship], and fresh running waters out of your own well.

We see the idea of cleansing with water and a foreshadowing of this cleansing.

Then, with John the Baptist, we see a transition, a cleansing baptism which he more concretely identified as a shadow of that to come:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you in (with) water because of repentance [that is, because of your changing your minds for the better, heartily amending your ways, with abhorrence of your past sins]. But He Who is coming after me is mightier than I, Whose sandals I am not worthy or fit to take off or carry; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

And Paul confirming that John's baptism was transitional:

Acts 19:3-4 And he asked, Into what [baptism] then were you baptized? They said, Into John's baptism. (4) And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, continually telling the people that they should believe in the One Who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus [having a conviction full of joyful trust that He is Christ, the Messiah, and being obedient to Him].

Now we see Jesus paralleling Himself with cleansing water:

Joh 4:10 Jesus answered her, If you had only known and had recognized God's gift and Who this is that is saying to you, Give Me a drink, you would have asked Him [instead] and He would have given you living water.

Joh 4:14 But whoever takes a drink of the water that I will give him shall never, no never, be thirsty any more. But the water that I will give him shall become a spring of water welling up (flowing, bubbling) [continually] within him unto (into, for) eternal life.

John 7:37-39 Now on the final and most important day of the Feast, Jesus stood, and He cried in a loud voice, If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink! (38) He who believes in Me [who cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me] as the Scripture has said, From his innermost being shall flow [continuously] springs and rivers of living water. (39) But He was speaking here of the Spirit, Whom those who believed (trusted, had faith) in Him were afterward to receive. For the [Holy] Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified (raised to honor).

Rev 21:6 And He [further] said to me, It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I [Myself] will give water without price from the fountain (springs) of the water of Life. [Isa. 55:1.]

Rev 22:17 The [Holy] Spirit and the bride (the church, the true Christians) say, Come! And let him who is listening say, Come! And let everyone come who is thirsty [who is painfully conscious of his need of those things by which the soul is refreshed, supported, and strengthened]; and whoever [earnestly] desires to do it, let him come, take, appropriate, and drink the water of Life without cost. [Isa. 55:1.]

Now we see that John's baptism, for the remission of sins, no longer serves that purpose as that function is replaced by the Name of Christ:

Act 22:16 And now, why do you delay? Rise and be baptized, and by calling upon His name, wash away your sins.

Romans 6:3-11 Are you ignorant of the fact that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? (4) We were buried therefore with Him by the baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious [power] of the Father, so we too might [habitually] live and behave in newness of life. (5) For if we have become one with Him by sharing a death like His, we shall also be [one with Him in sharing] His resurrection [by a new life lived for God]. (6) We know that our old (unrenewed) self was nailed to the cross with Him in order that [our] body [which is the instrument] of sin might be made ineffective and inactive for evil, that we might no longer be the slaves of sin. (7) For when a man dies, he is freed (loosed, delivered) from [the power of] sin [among men]. (8) Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (9) Because we know that Christ (the Anointed One), being once raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has power over Him. (10) For by the death He died, He died to sin [ending His relation to it] once for all; and the life that He lives, He is living to God [in unbroken fellowship with Him]. (11) Even so consider yourselves also dead to sin and your relation to it broken, but alive to God [living in unbroken fellowship with Him] in Christ Jesus.

and we also see that 'baptism' is now a thing of the spirit, not of water:

1Co 12:13 For by [means of the personal agency of] one [Holy] Spirit we were all, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, baptized [and by baptism united together] into one body, and all made to drink of one [Holy] Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4-5 [There is] one body and one Spirit--just as there is also one hope [that belongs] to the calling you received-- (5) [There is] one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 5:26 So that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the Word,

1Pe 3:21 And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

SealedEternal · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject:

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Hello SealedEternal

SealedEternal · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject:

FoC · Goldfish Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 62

Water Baptism...just do it
By Wm Tipton

Instead of discussing whether water baptism 'saves' a person...an issue we personally believe is conditional seeing that some folks repent of their sins yet are unable for whatever reason to be baptised...Id like to discuss whether water baptism was practiced AFTER Jesus had ascended and after Pentecost and the coming of the Holy Spirit.

Some seem to think that after a time that water baptism was removed from our faith or something, but I personally do not believe that is the case.

The day of Pentecost and the coming of the Holy Spirit is recorded in Acts 2, as we well know, so do we see any water baptisms going on after this baptism of 'fire' spoken of in Gods word?

6 entire chapters later we have a very clear baptism in water being practiced still. If Spirit baptism is all that is *required* or expected at this point, then why is this even occurring? (of course we expect some to come up with illogical reasoning's and excuses, but read it for yourself and take no ones word for anything. Does it make sense to YOU that this water baptism is taking place *IF* it is no longer of any issue? )
Quote:

Act 8:36-39
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? (37) And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
.

This next passage is quite clear. These HAD already recieved the Holy Spirit and yet WERE going to be baptized in WATER as well.

Act 10:44-48 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (45) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (46)
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Then answered Peter, (47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Now, dear reader, is there any doubt in your mind about what is clearly shown there?
These who HAD already received the Holy Spirit were commanded to be baptized in water. we know its water since they had ALREADY received the Holy Spirit.

These who argue against water baptism do so with their own personal agendas.
Do not let these who teach falsely rob you of the blessing of water baptism...

FoC · Goldfish Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 62

SealedEternal · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject:

FoC · Goldfish Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 62

SealedEternal · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:43 am Post subject:

That's odd because I thought you agreed that water had nothing to do with regeneration, but now you say it is antichrist to say so. Make up your mind.

SealedEternal

FoC · Goldfish Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 62

SealedEternal · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:39 am Post subject:

FoC · Goldfish Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 62

[quote="SealedEternal"]

tonytony · Tadpole Joined: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 20

Water is not symbolic of receiving his Spirit as a converter that received Christ for their life. Water is taught about with literal application not symbolically of the Spirit being in Christ. No water baptism your not born again. John 3:5. "And" is a conjunction word referring to 2 or more things. Any English grammar teacher will tell us that. Except a man be born of the water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
"And" no tricky word. Water is water and spirit is spirit only. John 3:5 didn't say water baptism is optional. No thief on a cross being cruficied shortly can water baptize their self so this is the only exception with making it to heaven without water baptism given. Jesus stated the thief will be in paradise with him. Only exception but no exception outside of that. We now shut the mouth of the gainsayers.