Romans 3:31.....'Present the Law'

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: Romans 3:31.....'Present the Law'

Romans 3:31 " Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law".

The Greek meaning for the word 'establish'...is, present.

So, the Bible verse could read this way.......
3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we present the law.

Which fits perfectly, with what Psalms 19:7 say........
19:7 "The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple".

The 10 commandments law (Exodus 20:3-17) only shows us what sin is.....which then, should motivate us to seek Jesus Christ, for forgiveness of those sins !

lone-traveler · Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:49 am Post subject:

what about all the rest of the laws? shouldn't we know them also? Do they still serve a purpose for today?
For the Gentile as well as the Jew.

I find it fascinating how everyone is always so eager to throw them away, without even understanding what the meanings of them are.

If you like proverbs and ecclisiastes...you'll enjoy the laws.
They contain guidence, councils, how to discern good judgements.

everybody gets all hung up on the sacrificial laws, but if they understood the true meanings of the animals and fruits and wave offerings and sin offerings...all these, then they would understand the difference between looking at the law through carnal eyes versus spiritual eyes.

Take a bull. Find out what it represents. Then apply it to the scrifice. And you will find something much different than an animal. It's what the thing represents and what we're supposed to do about it, that's what it's all about.

for example:

bull:
Isa 51:20 Thy sons have fainted, they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net: they are full of the fury of the LORD, the rebuke of thy God.

so what is it that we're supposed to sacrifice to God? our fury and anger.

here it is in the NT:

Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

this putting away from you is the same as sacrificing it upon the altar.

how often do we get angry?
Exd 29:36 And thou shalt offer every day a bullock [for] a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it.

God's law never changes. His word is eternal.
It's our own understanding that needs to change.

what's a lamb?

Exd 29:38 Now this [is that] which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.
Exd 29:39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:

innocence and ignorance of evil devicesagainst oneself or another.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Jer 11:19 But I [was] like a lamb [or] an ox [that] is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, [saying], Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.

now why would we offer up our innocence or ignorance of things we may have committed or had been committed against us without knowledge? twice a day even.

Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
Job 4:19 How much less [in] them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation [is] in the dust, [which] are crushed before the moth?
Job 4:20 They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding [it].
Job 4:21 Doth not their excellency [which is] in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.

here's another:

Jer 2:32 Can a maid forget her ornaments, [or] a bride her attire? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.
Jer 2:33 Why trimmest thou thy way to seek love? therefore hast thou also taught the wicked ones thy ways.
Jer 2:34 Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.
Jer 2:35 Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned.
Jer 2:36 Why gaddest thou about so much to change thy way? thou also shalt be ashamed of Egypt, as thou wast ashamed of Assyria.
Jer 2:37 Yea, thou shalt go forth from him, and thine hands upon thine head: for the LORD hath rejected thy confidences, and thou shalt not prosper in them.

So offering up a lamb for sacrifice twice a day is the same as praying to God to forgive us for any sins we may have committed unknowingly during the night or the day.
and not only to pray for ourselves but for our enemies who plot evil against us.

2Ch 6:20 That thine eyes may be open upon this house day and night, upon the place whereof thou hast said that thou wouldest put thy name there; to hearken unto the prayer which thy servant prayeth toward this place.

Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

who is God's elect who cry day and night unto him?

Psa 44:22 Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

So what is offered up to God upon the altar morning and evening in the law of Moses?

Is it not ourselves? Our prayers? Our love? our faith? our hopes? our appologies? praying for God's forgiveness of ourselves and our enemies?

The whole law is spiritual...not just the top 10.. Very Happy

are we under the law and condemned by the works of the law?
hmm.....

what if we don't ever pray? and ask for forgiveness? and put away our wrath and anger?
Will we be condemned if we don't ask for forgiveness and just keep beboppin along our merry way??
what do you think??

Is it really the animals God wanted them to sacrifice?

Isa 66:3 ¶ He that killeth an ox [is as if] he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, [as if] he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, [as if he offered] swine's blood; he that burneth incense, [as if] he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose [that] in which I delighted not.

God's laws are AWESOME!! when you learn to read it with your heart.
The way he meant them to be heard.

God Bless
Lone

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject:

R7-12 · Tadpole Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 21

Hello Silver Surfer and lone-traveler,

I just wanted to make a correction concerning Romans 3:31.

The word in question in your post is most commonly rendered "establish" in English.

The Greek work is SGD 2476, histemi.

The correct definitions include:
to cause to stand, to place, make stand, authorize, put in force, establish, maintain, confirm, select, choose, propose, remain firmly, continue to be.

From: Swanson, J. 1997. Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor.

and also

Zodhiates, S. 2000, c1992, c1993. The Complete Word Study Dictionary : New Testament [electronic ed.] AMG Publishers: Chattanooga, TN.

The following is essentially a direct word-for-word rendering of Romans 3:31:

Do we then put an end to (abolish, nullify) the law through trust (faith - demonstrated by conduct based on conviction)? That may not come to be. But rather, we make the law stand (establish, confirm, maintain, etc.).

Although the thrust of your post is not incorrect theologically, the rendering of histemi as "present" is not an accurate choice.

What's interesting is that the focus and context of Romans 3 is actually the distinction between trust in the first covenant sacrificial system for justification (animal blood), and trust in the second covenant sacrificial system (Christ's blood) for justification. Most people assume that whenever they read the words "the law," it must be referring to the Ten Commandments. This is quite incorrect.

There are many different aspects or features within the law of God and one of these are indeed His commandments. However there are many other elements in the law including the means given to us to deal with sin. In the first covenant, Israel was given the temple system to teach them the spiritual principles contained in the symbolism associated with every aspect and procedure involved. In the second covenant, God's people received what the temple system pictured and prophesied - the reality - the true and perfect Lamb of God who washes away the sins of the world by his blood.

This theme is repeated throughout the NT, mostly by the apostle Paul. The problem is most assume he is talking about the commandments when he mentions "the law" when, in fact he is dealing with what was the most important issue at this time - the repalcement of the physical temple system (Levitical priesthood and animal sacrifices) with the sacrifice of Christ and the order of Melchizedek.

R7-12

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Romans 3:31 Correction

atoz · Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Romans 3:31 Correction

Silver Surfer · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Romans 3:31 Correction

Silver Surfer · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Romans 3:31 Correction

Christians, present God's Law (Exodus 20:3-17)......for the purpose of converting other people, to Jesus Christ.

19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Silver Surfer
I don't see anything particularly relevant to the sub-forum area, word origins, but whatever Wink

.

As you know the context of Rom3 is Paul proceeding to explain to the Jews in Rome why they are no longer under the Law, under that pedagogos-slave tutor, and why if they are to be hung up on pork and Saturdays they might as well be circumcised. And from Galatians any Gentile Christian who gets circumcised might as well "be cut off entirely" (Greek castrated, a graphic phrase, but not merely to shock - probably Paul meant that circumcision counts as spiritual castration, being unable to produce offspring to Christ).

I honestly worry for you Silver Surfer. You're a Gentile trying to live (in part) as a Jew, and teach others likewise, yet you would be nearer to Christ and happier if you could simply do as Paul says and today go to the supermarket and buy meat "not asking questions".

A bacon sandwich can bring us nearer to Jesus Smile

God bless
Steven

Silver Surfer

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Craig2uguys · Hamster Joined: 30 Nov 2007 Posts: 87

james · Bear Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 658

In Romans 2:17-23; 7:7,8; 13:9,10 these scriptures show clearly there is NO DIFFERENCE between the word usage of the law and the commandments. These scriptures refer to the 10 commandments as the "law" and also refer to the law as the "commandments."

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:57 am Post subject:

Craig2uguys · Hamster Joined: 30 Nov 2007 Posts: 87