water baptism

SealedEternal · Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Water baptism is a must...

John 3:5 is referring to the two births and has nothing to do with the ceremony of water baptism. Being born of "water" was a reference to the first birth which was of the flesh when our mothers gave birth to us:

John 3:6-7 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

It is the second birth which is of God through the washing and regeneration of His Spirit that saves us, not the first:

Titus 3:5-7 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Hebrews 10:14-17 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says, "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

Romans 8:13-17 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

It is being born of God through the work of His Spirit in our hearts and minds that saves us, not our works of the flesh and performing of ceremonies. We are all born once in the flesh, but only the few are born again by God through His Spirit. It is this second birth that saves us, and it has nothing to do with the ceremony of water baptism.

SealedEternal
_________________
1 John 3:7-8 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

FoC · Goldfish Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 62

Just interested, David...have you ever been baptized in water ? Or are you avoiding it ?

FoC · Goldfish Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 62

SealedEternal · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject:

Actually I've been water baptized twice. Once as a baby in a Lutheran so-called "Church" where we are told that this somehow brought me into God's family, and as long as I keep confessing my sins and taking communion I'd go to Heaven. I later realized that they lied and were promoting a false religion that denied the second birth which is the real "baptism" that counts.

Later in life I joined a so called "Bible Church" who told me that the sacramental gospel of Lutheranism is false (which is true) but then convinced me of another false gospel which is often called "easy believism." They told me that If I really believed in Christ I should be baptized in water again out of obedience, so I did.

I don't have an issue with the ceremony per se, and yes the apostles appeared to perform it at first. Of course Paul later said he didn't care if he baptized anyone, and in Acts 11:16 Peter remembered that the baptism that leads to life was of the Spirit, while the water baptism of John was temporary.

Luke 3:16 John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

I don't have a problem with people engaging in the ceremony, but from my experience the whole thing has become more of a stumbling block than anything. There are so many false religions that teach that there is some magical occurrence involved with the ceremony, that it just hinders many people from understanding the real gospel.

SealedEternal
_________________
1 John 3:7-8 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

FoC · Goldfish Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 62

Its good to know that you arent teaching outright against it. Honestly, seeing you at it so often about baptism has made me wonder if you werent teaching that we shounldnt ever be baptised.

Ive laid my views out pretty clearly in the two threads and I personally believe that it is very much a necessity that believers be baptised, from obedience of course, not loss of salvation.

But Id guess that in the same way I perceived what you may have been actually saying incorrectly, Im guessing that you probably believe that I actually condone easy divorce because I have to argue the issue so much Wink