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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8222
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Cut from the same cloth... |
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While I was in France a few weeks ago, I met a French Muslim (actually, he was from Mauritania, but now lives in France). He was a pretty mellow dude who totally hates Bin Laden and is totally liberal and accepts Christians and even atheists just like you'd expect a reasonable person to.
But one thing was really interesting... While speaking to him about religion, I had an extreme sense of deja vu, because literally ALL of the arguments he was bringing up in defense of his faith were IDENTICAL to the ones I've heard Christians give here. It was pretty uncanny.
Christians and Muslims don't realize how close their beliefs and reasoning actually are...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Cut from the same cloth... |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Christians and Muslims don't realize how close their beliefs and reasoning actually are... |
Perhaps it is because they are... Mohamed got the majority of his material from the Bible... he just got some of the details wrong.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8222
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Cut from the same cloth... |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Christians and Muslims don't realize how close their beliefs and reasoning actually are... |
Perhaps it is because they are... Mohamed got the majority of his material from the Bible... he just got some of the details wrong. |
Awesome! That's almost exactly what the Muslim I met said about your religion!
He said that the Bible was very good, but contained flaws, and along came Mohammed and fixed the flaws, and created a perfect piece of scripture.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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cballard
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 728
Location: WV
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well, P1234567890, there is an APB out there on you somewhere on this board. We didn't know where you went. Nice to hear from you again.
Personally, I believe the Muslims believe in the same God of Issac (except they think it's Ishmael), God of Jacob, and God of Abraham that Christians do. We don't think they're a good example of God's love because they want to kill us.
Scripturally speaking from the OT, I think Hagar and Ishmael did get a covenant. Read Gen. 16:8-15 and Gen. 21: 9-22. Their covenant is a bit different from the Jewish covenant, and a lot of the evils from the Koran come from radical teachers. I'm sure there are Musilims who have love not hate in their hearts. I just wish they'd speak up in condemnation of the hate the radicals have. I'm not real familiar with the Koran, and I don't say it's not the word of God to Hagar's offspring. God works in mysterious ways.[/i] |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8222
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| cballard wrote: | I'm sure there are Musilims who have love not hate in their hearts.
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I bet that the vast majority of them are reasonable people who just want to be left alone.
| cballard wrote: |
I just wish they'd speak up in condemnation of the hate the radicals have. |
I totally agree; I think that the 'good Muslims' don't do nearly enough to condemn the evil ones. They have a real P.R. problem.
On the other hand, is it so surprising? Humans clique together; it's a deeply-rooted instinct. Just look at what happens on this board when I criticize objectively evil people like George Bush and Jerry Falwell... Suddenly, good people jump in and defend them, simply because George and Jerry are Christians. Is it so surprising that 'moderate' Muslims have a soft spot for their crazy cousins?
In addition, the West has a long tradition of belligerence towards the Middle East. We've treated them very badly for a very long time, so of course even the reasonable ones are going to be suspicious of us at the very least.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Cut from the same cloth... |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Christians and Muslims don't realize how close their beliefs and reasoning actually are... |
Perhaps it is because they are... Mohamed got the majority of his material from the Bible... he just got some of the details wrong. |
Awesome! That's almost exactly what the Muslim I met said about your religion!
He said that the Bible was very good, but contained flaws, and along came Mohammed and fixed the flaws, and created a perfect piece of scripture. |
Ah.... no... not exactly. One has more manuscriptural evidence supporting its accuracy than any other work from antiquity... and the Koran has... "Well, Mohamed says so".
Apples and Oranges.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Cut from the same cloth... |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | While I was in France a few weeks ago, I met a French Muslim (actually, he was from Mauritania, but now lives in France). He was a pretty mellow dude who totally hates Bin Laden and is totally liberal and accepts Christians and even atheists just like you'd expect a reasonable person to.
But one thing was really interesting... While speaking to him about religion, I had an extreme sense of deja vu, because literally ALL of the arguments he was bringing up in defense of his faith were IDENTICAL to the ones I've heard Christians give here. It was pretty uncanny.
Christians and Muslims don't realize how close their beliefs and reasoning actually are... |
Makes perfect sense, P1234567890.
Both Xtianity and Islam have Golden Rules, and all GRs are based on Unconditional Love.
Matthew 22:36-40
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Xtian GR:
Matthew 7:12
12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Islam GR: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself."
Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths."
The only thing with that Mauritanian French Muslim guy tho':
If and since he hated ubl,
that means he hates himself as ubl
and also hates other muslims as ubl
and also hates xtians as ubl....
and so is breaking the unconditional Love for friends and enemies that is the basis of Islam and Xtianity.
hmmmm
in Love of good and bad muslims and xtians,
atoz |
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