Divine revelation vs. human wisdom

sandra3102 · Kitten Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 138

My brethren, I enjoy reading all your posts that indeed we recognize divine revelation as the TRUTH in the WORD. The hindrance to obtaining it are the following taboos that seem impossible to leave behind.

The curse for trusting men:

* Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

The folly of leaning to our own understanding:

* Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

The temptation being influenced by feeling or emotion:

• Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

What virtue have we forgotten in yearning for divine knowledge and wisdom?

• Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, LET HIM ASK OF GOD, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
• Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
• Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
• Jam 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Do we not reject the following because this is anathema to our mind and feeling?

1 Joh 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and YE NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
_________________
I love to talk about the word of God since I sincerely believe He is being represented thereto.

Schuckdaddy · Alley Cat Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Oregon

45degreeN · Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject:

Cars, airplanes, and cigarettes were never mentioned anywhere in scripture. So there cant be any scriptural word from God on them.

There are two ways to be certain of your answer, 1) if some recent prophecy mentions them (and there is controversy about there being any recent prophecy at all)2) you use some common sense and logic to come up with some reasonable answer. Just be aware that either/both of them might not be the actual word of God but emotion laden human reasoning.

This is why it is so important to trust God for the outcome and not worry in the mean time. God never expected us to be perfect in the first place and if the human wsidom is not good enough then we can be forgiven for those mistakes. In fact faith requires us to not be certain and definitely faith is something that God wants us to have lots of. 90%courage 9% persistence, 1% all the rest is what my teacher used to say.

God hates cowards and those who are so afraid to make decisions because of their fear of making a mistake.
_________________
My boss is a Jewish carpenter.

Read the
www.Christian-Thinktank.com

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Greetings

45degreeN · Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:15 am Post subject:

Nana, I've already written about the issues that I consider vague or ambiguous there might be others. Schuckdaddy chose this particular one which I dont consider ambiguous either.

Jesus spoke in parables so that some people could understand and others might claim they didn't understand.

Mark4:

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Hi 45,

The parables of the kingdom were only spoken to the Jews. He spoke to them in parables so that they might understand and be converted.

To rightly divide the word of truth one must see that the Kingdom of God is clearly spoken to us by the Apostle Paul and the rest.

Jesus said to the Jews before he went to the cross:

John 16:25, "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs (parables): but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, BUT I SHALL SHOW YOU PLAINLY OF THE FATHER."

Paul said to 'rightly divide' the Word of Truth because if we do not we will not see the difference before and after the resurrection of Christ.

The Epistles of John were not written in parables, but speak plainly of the Father.

The 'without' that it is speaking of in the Gospel of John is speaking to the Jews who will not believe that Christ is the Messiah, the only begotten Son of God who is going to bless the WORLD.

In Christ, Judy

sandra3102 · Kitten Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 138

DIVINE REVELATION BY “DEMONSTRATION”

A choice between "divine revelation" vs. "human wisdom"

Our Lord speaks the “language of man.” Hebrew to the Jews in the following. He told His listeners:

• “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.”

It is clear the people listening to Him were divided into two groups:

1. The JEWS who tried to understand what they heard in their Hebrew language.

2. The APOSTLES/DISCIPLES, although speaking the same language, preferred to wait for our Lord’s revelation of what He intended to mean.

Let us listen to the JEWS:

• Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

• Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Let us observe the APOSTLES/DISCIPLES

• Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

• Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

It is obvious and everybody now knows that the Apostles/Disciples got the right message when they “waited” for our Lord reveal His words by “demonstration.”

The Jews, on the other hand, used their human competence with the use of the “intellect, senses, and feeling” trying to understand the word of our Lord.

Now we can see the results of the two:

* The interpretation of the JEWS brought sadness to the Lord.

* The Apostles/Disciples received divine revelation by "waiting" for our Lord to "expound His words" BELIEVED THE SCRIPTURES.
_________________
I love to talk about the word of God since I sincerely believe He is being represented thereto.

Schuckdaddy · Alley Cat Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Oregon

Schuckdaddy · Alley Cat Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Oregon

How about the question of which manuscript is primary when a textual variant exist where accepted and reliable sources contain differing readings?
How do you make a decision on which reading is accurate?

(Please don't say read the KJV)

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Greetings Schuck,

sandra3102 · Kitten Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 138

Schuckdaddy · Alley Cat Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Oregon

I wasn't talking about English versions, I was talking about Greek(and to a lesser extent Hebrew) manuscripts that contain different readings for the same verse. In some cases its a different word or words, sometimes its a whole phrase that's been added or changed from manuscript to manuscript. And sometimes most agree with one reading but often the manuscripts are divided as to which reading is the original.

Because we have these multitudes of Greek manuscripts and each one varies from time to time on how they render any particular text, its important to know how the decision is made as to which rendering is the correct one.

This is the job a translator does, so most of the ambiguities have been handled before you get to the English text. They make the decisions for you, and when you are reading someone's translation you are basically trusting them that the decisions they made were the correct ones and the manuscripts they used were accurate.

The problem is that the translators may have been unduly influenced in their choices (whether knowingly or not), and have chosen a particular rendering or wording that did not reflect the original, and there is no way to confirm or deny that it is the original, because we don't have any extant autographs.

The thing is that the further back you push any topic the less certainty you can have about that topic, there just isn't enough information to provide adequate answers. That's why I think its important to discuss these topics as brothers and sisters in Christ, to come to issues with grace and humility, and recognize that understanding is what we aim for but absolute certainty is outside of the realm of our ability.

We are a body and as such the multiplicity of our perspectives enhance our collective understanding of the word God has revealed.

sandra3102 · Kitten Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 138

Where does human wisdom come in the recognition of the One True God?
_________________
I love to talk about the word of God since I sincerely believe He is being represented thereto.

Schuckdaddy · Alley Cat Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Oregon

sandra3102 · Kitten Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 138

God uses the “language of man” with which the Holy Bible is written: English to the Americans, German to the Germans, Hebrew to the Jews, etc. With this we understand why it is written:

• Eze 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

So was Jesus prophesied to speak parables:

• Psa 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

True to what “is written,” did Jesus speak except in parables?

• Mar 4:34 BUT WITHOUT A PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT UNTO THEM: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Was Simon Peter, John, James or any of the Apostles/Disciples authorized to expound on the words of our Lord?

• Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and WHEN THEY WERE ALONE, HE EXPOUNDED ALL THINGS TO HIS DISCIPLES.

Today, why do professing apostles take upon themselves this sole authority, and trust other people instead of trusting God?

• Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; CURSED BE THE MAN THAT TRUSTETH IN MAN, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Why do we “lean unto our own understanding” instead of trusting God to reveal His message?

• Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and LEAN NOT UNTO THINE OWN UNDERSTANDING.

Can we really trust God to give us the real message of His words?

• Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, LET HIM ASK OF GOD, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Can we believe this?

• 1 Joh 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and YE NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Can we accept this?

* Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

How do we answer this questions?
_________________
I love to talk about the word of God since I sincerely believe He is being represented thereto.