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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2656
Location: Salem Oregon
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
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It boils down to controlling the definitions of what we talk about (spin in other words). He who controls the spin wins the argument since his definition can trump any one else's. Regardless of if it makes any sense or not, regardless if it is true or not by anyone else's definition.
Definition of TO LOSE: Bush's definition means any time we back out of a situation for any reason (It also might include doubting his manhood. Kinda like Johnson in Vietnam.)
But by the Democrat's definition, the Iraqi war is not our war to win or lose, so it is not a matter that we can lose.
Since Bush's definition speaks to our manhood, it strikes terror in the heart of all "true men" and prevents them from ever going backward no matter what.
The Democrats definition requires greater intelligence and some form of objectivity, something the American congress hasn't displayed great amounts of lately. So Bush wins by default and we stay until we cant stay any longer. If it sounds like some form of sexual innuendo then so be it.
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My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8212
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: | then I think you're missing part of the story...because most folks do get their news from the "major outlets"...and the picture they paint becomes reality....
Where do you get your news? |
It's not really a 'where' so much as 'how'... I get my news from a variety of sources; all that really matters is corroboration of facts. I'm willing to look at pretty much any news source, even FOX News, but I don't read the commentary or the analysis. All I care about are the facts. Once I have the facts, I go to another news source and try to find out if the facts are corroborated.
If so, then I come up with my own analysis based on what I know about history, politics, science, etc. This is my 'initial hypothesis'.
The next step is to find out if I'm full of crap. I go to people such as my friends, my supervisor, you guys here, etc. and make a (usually strong) statement in order to elicit debate. This brings forth all sorts of opposing viewpoints, some of which are legitimate and some of which are not.
Then I revise my original hypothesis, and go through another few iterations. It's basically the scientific method applied to political analysis, and it works a whole lot better than just reading one piece and believing whatever the journalist had to say.
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8212
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I suppose if Hitler had a tomb, there would be n > 0 people worshiping there as well...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/28/saddam.birthday.ap/index.html
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1504
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Link
Language is important:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) "But make no mistake: Democrats are committed to ending this war."
Not..."We are committed to winning this war."
But "ending"....
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | Definition of TO LOSE: Bush's definition means any time we back out of a situation for any reason (It also might include doubting his manhood. Kinda like Johnson in Vietnam.) |
Can you connect the dots here for me... I'm not following how Bush’s policy has anything to do with manhood and everything to do with ensuring that the government we told we'd support... received that support.
| Quote: | | But by the Democrat's definition, the Iraqi war is not our war to win or lose, so it is not a matter that we can lose. |
I agree... they don't have the courage to even say that.... so they hide behind euphemisms and platitudes when in the end... it results in a disaster, death, and slaughter in Iraq and a humiliating defeat for our soldiers… and oh yea… a pick up in net seats in the Senate and House… but of course it ain’t about that… I mean… they wouldn’t play politics with something as serious as the war… would they? They would say one thing one month telling the president to… I don’t know… get rid of his SecDef… which he did… get a new General in Iraq… which he did… change the plan…. which he did with a surge (which they called for BTW)… and then say… oh woe is me.. the war is lost… the President doesn’t do anything we ask of him…
They wouldn’t do that would they? They wouldn’t vote 99 to 0 for a new General to command the forces in Iraq, send him there, have him come back and report to them on the situation and then state they don’t believe him? They wouldn’t try to pull something like that... would they?
| Quote: | | Since Bush's definition speaks to our manhood, it strikes terror in the heart of all "true men" and prevents them from ever going backward no matter what. |
Cite please...
| Quote: | | The Democrats definition requires greater intelligence and some form of objectivity, something the American congress hasn't displayed great amounts of lately. |
 Perhaps you can share with us what happened in Vietnam when we pulled up stakes and ran out of there... Cambodia... Loas? If 'Intelligence' is failing to know and understand history, if 'Intelligence' is a failure to understand our enemy and the what is at stake, if 'intelligence' is an inability to see over the horizon and understand what is going to happen to Iraq if we leave now... yea... I guess you're right, the newly elected American Congress has demonstrated that they are indeed 'intelligent'.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1504
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Interesting Op-ed here from what may be one of the last sane Democratics in Congress...
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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As if I needed to further quantify my assertion.... HERE is the Senate Majority Leader of the United States Senate asserting that we have failed.
Considering the fact that he refused to even speak... or even attend the briefing when Gen Petreaus was updating the Congress on the progress in Iraq... I don't see what shred of creditability Reid still has on this issue. He is no longer the Majority leader in the Senate, but has become the chief anti-war agitator in our country. He should resign and apologize to every soldier over there!
He is a traitor... worthy of being charged with treason... period. Even John Kerry… as much as he betrayed those he served with… wasn’t holding office when he was running his yammer.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: | | Interesting Op-ed here from what may be one of the last sane Democratics in Congress... |
Sorry Pondering... Bob Kerrey... is no longer in the Senate. 
What does that mean now? Oh yeah... that is why we get folks like Harry Reid (Mr. Las Vegas land 'steal'... I mean 'deal')... Chuck Shumer... that idiot Durbin from Illinois... and Ted Kennedy running things now for the Democratic Party. Are restraining devices of rationality have left leaving only those whose combined IQ still falls short of my bowling average...
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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ANOTHER EXAMPLE of why Reid should resign his post as majority leader... his seat in the senate, and his US Citizenship.
(He can keep all those millions he swindled out of that land deal and his congressional pension if he agrees to the above mentioned steps and gets the hell out of town before he does any more irreparable damage)
Since he has done such a fine job at denouncing the very military leaders he confirmed… I’m sure Al Queda would love to hire him as a public relations consultant… perhaps with money funneled through CAIR…
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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As if I needed further evidence demonstrating that the Democratic Party... its leadership... and supporters are bent on ensuring that we lose in Iraq... HERE we have the 3rd ranking demoncrat in congress admitting that if Petreous comes back in September and states we are making progress... it will be a problem for the Democrats... NOT GOOD FOR THE UNITED STATES... NOT GOOD FOR OUR TROOPS... NOT GOOD FOR THE IRAQIS... NOT GOOD FOR THE FORCES OF DEMOCRACY IN THE WORLD.... no.... just bad for them.
Well... screw them. How anyone can not see this... or what the real agenda of the anti-war... anti-patriotic (yes... anti-patriotic as it is plain now what the real agenda is now) vitriol coming from the Daily Kos... Moveon.orgs... et. al... can't see this... well...sorry.... you are either too stupid... or are indeed want to see Al Queda suceed. The cat is out of the bag.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1504
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:40 am Post subject: |
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amen...the main stream media is finally being forced to change their tune and report the truth...begrudgingly, but it's becoming self-evident that the surge IS working....
It's all about the "spin"....
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Bump... anyone else? Any reasons why this fella is wrong?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Bumping from the silence.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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digitalartist
Not So Newbie
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: | amen...the main stream media is finally being forced to change their tune and report the truth...begrudgingly, but it's becoming self-evident that the surge IS working....
It's all about the "spin".... |
Just to bring it up to date.
General Petraeus, who will bee debriefing Congress and the President on Iraq, said in an interview that the surge would have to stop in the not too distant future and that our military footprint (size) would have to be smaller next year.
An influential Conservative Republican has indicated that we need to start pulling the troops out as early as the middle of September
General Pace, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff has indicated he will tell the president that our troop strength i n Iraq needs to be reduced by sometime next year.
Now if these three people were Liberals there would be the immediate cry of cut and run and Liberals just want to surrender, however since these comments were made by an influential conservative and 2 top generals in the military what will the response be? |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1504
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Understand your point....
But both Gen Pace and Gen Petraeus are talking about slow/phased withdrawls...probable back to "pre-surge" levels, or about 130,000...
Sen Warner was pandering...he said 5,000 by September...what the heck is that supposed to do? That's 1 Army Brigade Combat Team, or 1 Marine Regimental Combat Team....nice thought, but would do next to nothing in helping relieve the deployment tempo and would hurt the situation on the ground...
and just so for the record, it'll take about a 6 months to 1 year to execute a withdrawl of all the gear, systems, and equipment we've got in there....
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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