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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2656
Location: Salem Oregon
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 Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: Hamas and Fatah at it again |
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Cant those Palestinians get it right? They're supposed to fight Israel not each other. In the last 48 hours there have been 4 truces two which only lasted 24 minutes! Are these some carnival clowns who make brave claims and then end up with water in their faces?
How do they ever expect the world to honor their rights to a home land if they cant even keep the peace amongst themselves. There is no Sunnis v Shia split here, it is raw politics Palestinian style. Even the mafia did better than this.
If it wasn't so sad I'd be laughing hard.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8212
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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This is interesting, because history is littered with losers who succumb to infighting.
But it's not just Muslims who are vulnerable to it; basically all of the problems that America is having in Iraq right now are due to turf wars between the Pentagon, the CIA, and the State Department, who totally hated each other, and refused to cooperate on the ground in Iraq.
Compare all of this to the seamless integration and cooperation between the Allied forces during WWII. In North Africa, they literally had companies composed of French, British, AND American soldiers fighting against Rommel.
I guess it's true what they say about the 'greatest generation'...
Incidentally, consider how the Muslims would be treating each other if Israel didn't exist! I think the argument can be made that the very existence of Israel has worked miracles when it comes to stabilizing the Islamic world. They should be grateful!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Seems it just ain't turning out to be a good week for Hamas. They start out by killing each other, and when they can’t do that right, then good take your frustration out on a few Jews. HERE we see there is a price to pay for not checking the impact area for your followers who think it is good sport to shoot at schools neighborhoods with rockets.
I'm sure we'll hear from the usual apologists like CAIR who will minimize the incidents leading up to the Israeli response... and only focus on the Zionist Terror waged against the innocent Muslims trapped in the Jewish fashioned ghettos in Palestine. 
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8212
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: |
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I of course support the Israelis over the Muslims, but it is actually true that Palestinians have been ghettoized. The Israelis kicked them off their land by force, and they have a right to be angry about that. If someone did it to you, you'd respond with violence as well, and that's DESPITE the fact that you're a Christian and that Christianity is supposed to be a peaceful religion. The Palestinians have no such checks in their religion.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | I of course support the Israelis over the Muslims, but it is actually true that Palestinians have been ghettoized. The Israelis kicked them off their land by force, and they have a right to be angry about that. |
1948... June... pretty much the day Israel is founded... it is attacked by a coalition of Arab countries. They stream into Israel (Palestine) telling those who occupy the land to leave, they can come back after the Jews are defeated, and can prolly get their hands on the Jew's lands once they get finished wiping them out.
Keep in mind... the Trans-Jordan partition involved 80% of the land going to the Arabs... not the Jews. The Jews get a sliver of a slice... but of course that is unacceptable... They must be removed.
So, after the Arabs are humiliated in 1948, and again in 1956, and again in 1967, and humiliated again in 1973.... they have resorted to these suicide attacks.
All the while, the Islamic brothers of the Palestinians... the Arab cultures of the peninsula refuses to assimilate their brother Palestinians when (1) they left on their own accords and (2) refuse to live peaceably with the Jews... regardless of what offers are made. Arafat was essentially promised over 90% of his demands by Edhud Barak... and he walked away and started the Intifadah...
This conflict has nothing to do with a Palestinian homeland, that never existed in the first place. It has nothing to do with them getting their land back (as there are a huge amount of Arabs living as citizens in Israel today that were there in 1948). Lastly, it has nothing to do with Israeli aggression. It has everything to do with their existence.
It is a constant reminder of how inept the Muslim religion is when caring for their fellow adherents. It is a reminder of how inept their leaders are in negotiating a peaceful settlement. It is also a constant reminder of how backwards their own culture is in thier belief that essentially the only way to win... is to die.
It is humiliating... and in that culture... that is unacceptable.
Israel didi not kick them off their lands. When Israel was established as a State... the Jews were already there... for the most part... they just aren't subject or submissive anymore to the Islam.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1506
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: |
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yep 
Also of note, when the King of Jordan allowed the Palestinians to reside in the Trans-Jordan, they repayed his kindness by trying to overthrow him....that got them spanked and kicked out, where they fled to southern Lebanon, and resulted in provoking the Israelis into attacking them there (and hammering the rest of Lebanon too)....see a trend?
My solution?...build a wall all the way around the Gaza and the West Bank...shoot anyone trying to enter or leave. Come back in 100 years to check on it. Leave pot to simmer for additional 100 years. But then, I've been called draconian in my response...your milage may vary.
What is truly sick is the Mainstream media (primarily the Associated Press') coverage...didn't hear about the Palestinian rockets attacking Israeli schools earlier this week? not surprised....Front page stuff though about the Israeli response...
Israelis are no saints. But they do understand the rule of Law and Compromise....Arabs respect neither.
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Pondering, that was Hezbullah that fought Israel last summer, not the Palestinians....(sigh)
Anyway, Fatah are in love with the Israelis; so much for the palestian liberation movement.
Fatah are just sore losers, gimps, goons, crooks. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiptronic wrote: | Pondering, that was Hezbullah that fought Israel last summer, not the Palestinians....(sigh)
Anyway, Fatah are in love with the Israelis; so much for the palestian liberation movement.
Fatah are just sore losers, gimps, goons, crooks. |
And Hamas is a bunch of... winners, law abiding liberators?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Tiptronic wrote: | Pondering, that was Hezbullah that fought Israel last summer, not the Palestinians....(sigh)
Anyway, Fatah are in love with the Israelis; so much for the palestian liberation movement.
Fatah are just sore losers, gimps, goons, crooks. |
And Hamas is a bunch of... winners, law abiding liberators? |
Hamas arent in bed with the forces that occupy the Palestinian people. They are with the Palestinian people - the outright election win confirms this. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiptronic wrote: | | Hamas arent in bed with the forces that occupy the Palestinian people. They are with the Palestinian people - the outright election win confirms this. |
Ok... and when are they going to start acting like they are in charge... you know... providing some type of governance for their 'people'? Instead of taking them out and shooting their fellow citizens in the streets… (notice: I didn’t see any ‘occupiers’ doing this)
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Tiptronic wrote: | | Hamas arent in bed with the forces that occupy the Palestinian people. They are with the Palestinian people - the outright election win confirms this. |
Ok... and when are they going to start acting like they are in charge... you know... providing some type of governance for their 'people'? Instead of taking them out and shooting their fellow citizens in the streets… (notice: I didn’t see any ‘occupiers’ doing this) |
When they arent being strangled by Israel and the international community, especially the US and UK.
Hamas is known for its wide spread social support service, being able to get things done. Back when they won the elections, there was a reason. People were fed up with the current governments inability to do anything and saw Hamas as the answer.
But Israel/US/UK saw to it the Hamas couldnt get off the ground. Israel froze millions of dollars worth of Palestinian money in taxes and revenues. International aid was halted. Gaza's economy then became non existant with the closing of all borders. Added to the fact of constant incursions and deaths.
I mean, name me a government that would be able to function in these situations. Its really no wonder things came to this. People hadnt been paid for months, the humanitarian crisis was getting worse and what you basically had was the Israelis trying to lock the people of Gaza into a cage, and eventually things would explode in this powder keg.
(notice: I didn’t see any ‘occupiers’ doing this) ~ Open your eyes perhaps? |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Tiptronic wrote: | | When they arent being strangled by Israel and the international community, especially the US and UK. |
Oh no you don't... the US/UK/Israel only withheld money from them. Money that wasn't theirs to begin with. The reason why... and this is what is absent from your post is why... why would the mean ole US of A and UK... and those occupiers withhold $$$?
Could it be... oh... I don't know... the fact that the very people it was suppose to go to... have sworn to remove your head from your shoulders and chuck your torso into the sea? Could that be it? I mean, if I got a few extra gazillion dollars laying around the house… the last people I’m going to consider for philanthropy are those are those crazy neighbors who are continuously lobbing hand grenades into my back yard, training their children to hate me and my children, and screaming every obscenity they can at my wife. You bethcha… it is the Americans and Israel that is strangling these folks… their not choking on their own hate… we’re causing it.
| Quote: | | But Israel/US/UK saw to it the Hamas couldnt get off the ground. |
Would you support them? Knowing they are sworn to… in their charter document, to destroy you… or one of your key allies? Would you give them support… money? If you would, then you are guilty of the same stupidity that you accuse me of.
| Quote: | | I mean, name me a government that would be able to function in these situations. |
-k-… how about a bunch of rag-tag anti-imperialists in the 1780s? How about a bunch of Jewish miscreants in 1948 who had every nation, on every boarder, attack them all at once… are those the kind of examples you are looking for? Ones where people don’t spend a lifetime blaming others for their own problems?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Hamas and Fatah at it again |
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| T1 wrote: | | If it wasn't so sad I'd be laughing hard. |
T1,
When I hate my enemies, I must also be already hating my friends.
Example:
For any palestinian to hate a jew as a thief,
that palestinian is already hating himself and all palestinians as a thief!
Example:
For any jew to hate any palestinian as a terrorist.
that jew must already be hating all jews, including himself, as a terrorist.
Who killed rabin?
So?
So each side's worse enemy is his own side!
If all Jews were dead, palestinians wd still hate ach other.
If all palestinians were dead, jews wd still hate each other.
With friends like those who hate their enemies, you don't need enemies!
Hermann Hesse:
If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself.
What isn't [the] part of ourselves [that we hate] doesn't disturb us [in others].
Look at edelman hating hilary as a traitor.
So who does he already hate as a traitor?
And who else? All americans who are now to him loyal!
Haters of traitors are the biggest traitors..and so need our Love the most.
You are sad because you love your enemies too.
Haters of enemies wd be laughing all the way.
in love of myself as hamas and as fatah and as all jews so I can love all as me and so show them how to lvoe each as all others and so the others as each,
atoz |
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