What is the Law of God?

R7-12 · Tadpole Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 21

HeKkler,

Your response is based on the following assumption,

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Greetings R7,

I will have to say that I was discouraged in continuing on in this post as it appears it will just be another argument on the law versus grace thing.

I read your next post and it is 'pro-the-law' and unless you could show me that you are open to other opinions then your post is not a study, but a debate on why I should be under the law.

I have also found that if anyone opposes the law immediately every SDA on this forum surrounds the opposition so fast that if there were any points to be made they are lost and nothing is accomplished.

I believe that study is beneficial but that debate leads to strife that I try to avoid.

Respectfully in Christ, Judy

R7-12 · Tadpole Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 21

Hi Judy,

I’m sorry you feel discouraged about what you think this thread is about.

It’s unfortunate that you have already concluded that my post is not a study based on what you think my position on the law is.

Please post what I said which you believe is not scriptural.

You make this conclusion from the perspective that I am not open to other opinions. From your response it appears you are not “pro-law,” so I ask you the same question, are you open to other opinions on this subject?

I can appreciate your frustration regarding discussions of the law that tend to have no beneficial outcome. That is not where I wish this thread to go. SDAs are not likely to either post here or continue to post for very long as their position is not really pro law - biblically speaking.

I also agree that debate leads to strife, and I too wish to avoid that. I am not interested in discussing topics with those who want to argue and oppose. I am interested in having discussions with those who are open-minded about the law, because the fact is, we really don’t understand the law. If we did, there would not be so many and such intense arguments about it.

A debate is an argument involving two people who do not agree and don’t wish to understand each other’s point of view.

I’m not interested in debate. I’m interested in examining the scriptures honestly so as to glean truth, not support for an argument based on what I want to believe.

If there is no one here who wants to explore this any further, then it will become clear.

We will see where this thread goes.

R7-12

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Greeting R7,

I have been reading Genesis & Exodus and it appears that the commandments of God began in the Garden:

Genesis 2:17, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

The penalty for breaking that commandment was spiritual death and physical death. They were also afraid and ashamed.

I hope that I am not jumping ahead of myself or am being to simplistic in saying that it is my belief that Christ brought us back to sacred ground when He died and was resurrected.

Eph 2:6, "And hath raise us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

I John 3:20-21, "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things, Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God."

This is something that Adam and Eve could not say until Christ.

Perhaps we can go from here.

In Christ, Judy

R7-12 · Tadpole Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 21

Hi Judy,

Thanks for your response.

I would agree that the first commandment(s) given to man were in the Garden of God. And also that a penalty for breaking the commandment pertaining to taking from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was also made known.

I guess we have a kind of matrix here between the command of God and the penalty for breaking it. They are inexticably connected by God's word. Command connected to consequence or result of action taken.

What is interesting here is the fact that even though this is the first place a command is given to man, the law of God must have already existed before this aspect of it was declared to Adam.

The Bible definition of sin is whatever transgresses the law of God (1Jn. 3:4; Rom. 5:13; 7:7). Therefore Adam and Eve could not have sinned unless the law already existed, from which God gave the first command.

This brings us back to the initial question. When and from where did the law originate?

Indeed, this is a good start. Very Happy

R7-12

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 153

How could sin have existed before if Adam and Eve had been created by God and were the first of God's creations. God had told Adam and Eve they could eat of the fruit in the garden from any tree but the tree of knowledge. From this we see how Adam and Eve sinned against what God had commanded.

The ten commandments come from a list of over 600 commandments given to Gods people the Isrealites. They were to keep these commandments but if for some reason a sin was committed they had a means of forgiveness by givings different offerings to God.

These things are clearly told to us in the old testament.

R7-12 · Tadpole Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 21

Hi Rocket,

That's a very good question.

You asked,

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Greetings R7,

Revelation 12:9, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Prior to God's earthly creations their must have been a law in heaven that would deem Satan the father of liars. It mentions the tabernacle on earth to be made exactly like the one in heaven. I believe that the heavenly tabernacle is spiritual and cannot be seen, but neverthe less it was designed on earth for our understands of God's way.

Are we making progress, or am I drifting?

In Christ, Judy

R7-12 · Tadpole Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 21

Hi Judy,

Wow! Those are great points.

Let’s take a closer look at Satan’s rebellion.

How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! 13 For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit (Isa. 14:12-15, NKJV).

You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: the sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. 16 “By the abundance of your trading you became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones (Eze. 28:13-16, NKJV).

There is a lot that can be taken from these scriptures but for the sake of our discussion, I want to draw out the point that Satan, the son of the morning, or Morning Star, was the first being created by Almighty God to commit sin, that is, to break the law of God.

This fact might bring us to consider a few things about the law of God that perhaps we haven’t considered before. In fact, one could probably make a list of logical conclusions that could be drawn concerning the law, if we take a bit of time to meditate on the implications of these texts.

Any ideas?

R7-12

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Greetings R-7,

I have meditated much over the scripture you quoted and would like to try to explain what I see, though it be spiritual and hard to explain.

When God made man the flesh was the instrument of evil. But in the begining man did not have the mind of the flesh. He was in perfect fellowship with the spiritual and invisible God.

But then man was tempted by the lust of the flesh (I will be a God to know good and evil)and turned from the mind of the spirit and followed with his mind the way of the flesh.

The scripture that you quoted I believe alignes its self to the flesh. When if you read it in that light it brings us to see why at the cross of Christ the flesh had to die.

I have left many gaps in this senario but will fill in later as I would like to see if you consider this at all.

And no, I am not eliminating Satan.

In Christ, Judy

R7-12 · Tadpole Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 21

Hi Judy,

The dynamics involved with Adam & Eve’s thinking and decision to disobey God is a topic I think is worth exploring. Perhaps another thread on that topic can be started sometime to do just that. Again, the focus of this thread is on the law of God itself.

From the previous texts posted, we can see that the law of God existed before mankind. This is not generally considered. We can also identify the fact that the first account of the law ever being broken involved the rebellion of Satan. This too, is not always realized.

It’s from these two facts that I’m hoping we can continue examining the law, its origin, its purpose, and its application in the plan of God.

R7-12

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Greetings R-7,

Lead on, I will try to follow.

In Christ, Judy

lone-traveler · Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject:

Pro 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When [there were] no depths, I was brought forth; when [there were] no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, [as] one brought up [with him]: and I was daily [his] delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights [were] with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 ¶ Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed [are they that] keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 8:34 Blessed [is] the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
Pro 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

God gave commandments before the earth was ever created. Wisdom is His law and he gives wisdom to man to live by and to follow.

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 153

We have thought very deeply on the subject of the 10 commandments. It's interesting how you must make things of the Bible much more involved then they really are. We have brought in Lucifer the Angel God kicked out ot heaven. Adam and Eve had to be brought in to the discussion, why, I don't know. The commandments were not given before the earth was formed, because very simply there was nothing and noone to give it to. God might have rules in heaven but they are not for us. The commandments were given long after the above events took place. They were given to the descendants of Abraham, the Israelites, who were God's chosen people. You will find them in the book of Exodus chapter 20. Here you will find that the Israelites had already left Eygpt and crossed the Red Sea. These laws were part of the covenant between God and His chosen people.
As the history of the Israelites progresses, it shows how they displease God and have sinned against Him until in the book of Amos He turnes His back on them. It took 400 years for God to finally send the Messiah, Yeshua, as fortold by the prophets.
Since Yeshua/Jesus was a Jew, or Israelite He would have kept the commandment as God had given them to His ancestors.
The last thing Yeshua did was to leave us with these two commandments. To love God with all our heart and to love each other. Basically these encumpass all the commantments. So yes the commandments are still to be followed.