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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7709
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: Palestinian Child Abuse... |
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If this isn't child abuse, then I don't know what is...
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/PalestinianChildAbuse/
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1413
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Neither... it is Islamic Education based on the example of Mohamed. 
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7709
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Well, I call it child abuse!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Well, I call it child abuse! |
Are you saying then that Muslims that raise their children after the example that Mohamed set is child abuse?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7709
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Well, I call it child abuse! |
Are you saying then that Muslims that raise their children after the example that Mohamed set is child abuse? |
Actually, I was saying that teaching your kids to hate and putting guns in their hands is child abuse...
But now that you mention it, I guess I definitely agree that raising your child Muslim is child abuse.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | But now that you mention it, I guess I definitely agree that raising your child Muslim is child abuse. |
Hold on sec... for clarity... I didn't say that raising a child as a Muslim is 'child abuse'.
If you would like I could go on a three page dissertation why I think Islam is Satanic in nature, obviously the yammering of a man bent on seizing power, sex, and position... under the guise of religion... not some peccadillo like child abuse... but... that would take some time. 
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7709
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Trinity, with child abuse, there are obviously varying degrees. Beating the hell out of your kid, breaking bones, sexually abusing them, prostituting them, etc. is obviously the worst level.
Indoctrinating your children with hate and forcing them to despise other people is less bad, but obviously still abuse and obviously still bad.
Forcing repressive religious views onto your kid, making wear headscarves, undermining their educations, etc. is even less bad than that, but obviously still child abuse.
It's a sliding scale.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | Trinity, with child abuse, there are obviously varying degrees. Beating the hell out of your kid, breaking bones, sexually abusing them, prostituting them, etc. is obviously the worst level.
Indoctrinating your children with hate and forcing them to despise other people is less bad, but obviously still abuse and obviously still bad.
Forcing repressive religious views onto your kid, making wear headscarves, undermining their educations, etc. is even less bad than that, but obviously still child abuse.
It's a sliding scale. |
OH
Does this mean you don't want to read my disertation? 
Seriously though... I understand what you are stating here and agree mostly. This does cause some problems though... I'm sure you remember our friend Dick Dawkins and his comments concerning what is and is not child abuse.
Well... if Dick had his way, his opinion would trump religous convictions and make those who raise their own children as christians child absuers.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7709
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Well... if Dick had his way, his opinion would trump religous convictions and make those who raise their own children as christians child absuers. |
You're taking Dawkins out of context. That's not what he means.
Dawkins is talking about indoctrination. As far as the law is concerned, whenever you have a religious group (or any other group for that matter), it is VERY important that people have the right to leave the group if they want to. This should be self-evident. Any group that holds its members captive and doesn't let them leave is an evil cult and its leaders should be thrown in jail for false imprisonment or something of that sort.
I don't know if what I'm about to say is enshrined in the law or not, but if it is not, then it should be: Just letting people leave if they want to is not enough. They must also be given a fighting chance at deciding whether or not they want to leave. That means that it should be illegal to totally brainwash people, and more importantly, they should have the opportunity to hear opposing viewpoints. This is obviously very healthy.
Dawkins says that brainwashing children and not giving them a fighting chance at hearing opposing viewpoints so that they can make up their own minds is child abuse, and he's totally right.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
Well... if Dick had his way, his opinion would trump religous convictions and make those who raise their own children as christians child absuers. |
You're taking Dawkins out of context. That's not what he means.
Dawkins is talking about indoctrination. As far as the law is concerned, whenever you have a religious group (or any other group for that matter), it is VERY important that people have the right to leave the group if they want to. This should be self-evident. Any group that holds its members captive and doesn't let them leave is an evil cult and its leaders should be thrown in jail for false imprisonment or something of that sort.
I don't know if what I'm about to say is enshrined in the law or not, but if it is not, then it should be: Just letting people leave if they want to is not enough. They must also be given a fighting chance at deciding whether or not they want to leave. That means that it should be illegal to totally brainwash people, and more importantly, they should have the opportunity to hear opposing viewpoints. This is obviously very healthy.
Dawkins says that brainwashing children and not giving them a fighting chance at hearing opposing viewpoints so that they can make up their own minds is child abuse, and he's totally right. |
I think what Dawkins is doing here is venting his frustration similarly to what Luther did towards the Jews in the 16th century when they refused to convert to protestant Christianity.
Here he, and the educational establishment of the west, have for the most part had a corner on the intellectual market in our public schools for going on 4 decades now. Speaking of God has pretty much become illegal and frowned upon. Yet, people are still professing Christians, the faith is continuing to grow and flourish (in the United States anyway) and he just can’t stand it. It isn’t that he, or you, want children to hear opposing viewpoints… not at all. The issue is that you and Dawkins don’t want kids to hear a Christian viewpoint. The vitriolic hostility of anything religious in the public arena of ideas is spurned and maligned. Just a quick look at any criticism of evolutionary theory in schools... it is not only non-existent… it is marginalized and ridiculed by anyone who disagrees. It is a classic case of the indoctrination you so quickly jump on Christians for committing, yet you refuse to admit or recognize your own obstinate guilt of the same offense.
Dawkins indeed was equating Christian parenting to Child abuse. It isn’t that he wants children exposed to different ideas, it is that he doesn’t want them exposed to Christian ideas. That is his problem. If they were only exposed to evolutionary or atheistic dogma we would not hear one peep from him… none. It is the fact that he is a control freak unable to control the Christian ideal that motivates him to express such resentment and hostility. I do notice he has this nasty little habit of marginalizing those who disagree with him, and thus allowing himself to be elevated to a position where any criticism of his perspectives is met with a condescending tone of intellectual snobbery…
It is as obvious as it is disgusting.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7709
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
I think what Dawkins is doing here is venting his frustration similarly to what Luther did towards the Jews in the 16th century when they refused to convert to protestant Christianity.
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Is this a not-so-subtle attempt to smearingly associate Dawkins with Luther's anti-Semitism?
| Trinity1 wrote: |
Here he, and the educational establishment of the west, have for the most part had a corner on the intellectual market in our public schools for going on 4 decades now.
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I think you're confused... America is the only country in the civilized world in which evolution being taught in schools is even up for debate, and it has made America a laughing stock. Science and reason most certainly DOES NOT have the 'intellectual market' cornered in America. Far from it!
| Trinity1 wrote: |
Speaking of God has pretty much become illegal and frowned upon.
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No it hasn't, but it certainly should be.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
Yet, people are still professing Christians, the faith is continuing to grow and flourish (in the United States anyway) and he just can’t stand it.
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If Christianity were spreading in America, then that would be ok, but that's NOT what's been happening. The violent gun-loving fundamentalist brand of Christianity being spread in America in no way, shape, or form resembles Jesus' original teachings...
| Trinity1 wrote: |
It isn’t that he, or you, want children to hear opposing viewpoints… not at all. The issue is that you and Dawkins don’t want kids to hear a Christian viewpoint. The vitriolic hostility of anything religious in the public arena of ideas is spurned and maligned. Just a quick look at any criticism of evolutionary theory in schools... it is not only non-existent…
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What are you talking about??? The level of criticism against evolution in America is OFF THE CHARTS when compared with the rest of the civilized world! There is more criticism of evolution in America than there is in Iran!!!
| Trinity1 wrote: |
it is marginalized and ridiculed by anyone who disagrees. It is a classic case of the indoctrination you so quickly jump on Christians for committing, yet you refuse to admit or recognize your own obstinate guilt of the same offense.
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You're confused. Indoctrination is when you ram political or religious ideas down kids' throats. When you teach them about evolution, that's called education, and NOT indoctrination.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
Dawkins indeed was equating Christian parenting to Child abuse. It isn’t that he wants children exposed to different ideas, it is that he doesn’t want them exposed to Christian ideas.
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He wants them to have a fighting chance to throw off the Christian yoke if they want to... And most children raised under a fundamentalist roof certainly don't have this opportunity. *That* is what he refers to as child abuse, and he's got a legitimate argument.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
I do notice he has this nasty little habit of marginalizing those who disagree with him, and thus allowing himself to be elevated to a position where any criticism of his perspectives is met with a condescending tone of intellectual snobbery…
It is as obvious as it is disgusting. |
That's just his British accent.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1413
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
| Trinity1 wrote: |
Speaking of God has pretty much become illegal and frowned upon.
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No it hasn't, but it certainly should be. |
 doht!
Remember when you said I should be shocked that Pat Robertson would have to look to his right to see me...well, you've just gone faaaaaaaaar to the right of me
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Link to intro post of "who I am"
"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
I think what Dawkins is doing here is venting his frustration similarly to what Luther did towards the Jews in the 16th century when they refused to convert to protestant Christianity.
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Is this a not-so-subtle attempt to smearingly associate Dawkins with Luther's anti-Semitism? |
Smearing Dawkins does not require one to associate Dawkins with Luther's anti-Semitic rants at his failures to convert Jews... but it most certainly analogous with what he has said and done in the past... I thought it was a pretty close parallel.
| Quote: | | I think you're confused... |
and I would be disappointed if I thought you believed I was actually coherent...
| Quote: | | America is the only country in the civilized world in which evolution being taught in schools is even up for debate, and it has made America a laughing stock. |
Yea... all those countries laughing at us arne't leading the world in drug development, anti-biotic development, medicine, etc... I think the laughter is nothing more than a form of despair...
BTW... which leads me back to the topics in this forum... England, France, and essentially all of Europe has pretty much given up on defending themselves from Islamic immigration walking all over them. They no longer believe in anything, because they have been taught that they can know nothing (thanks to your ideal of education), since they no longer believe they can know anything, they no longer believe in themselves, their countries, their nationalities... they are hopelessly lost in their 'nothingness'.
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
Speaking of God has pretty much become illegal and frowned upon.
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No it hasn't, but it certainly should be. |
I think Pondering pretty much summed up my response to that one comment....
I would add, however, that this right is constitutionally guaranteed. Right next to that one about free speech. The idea that if a public official speaks about religion is somehow an endorsement was written for those who are mentally challenged and are unable to differentiate between what is and is not 'establishing' an official religion.
| Quote: | | If Christianity were spreading in America, then that would be ok, but that's NOT what's been happening. The violent gun-loving fundamentalist brand of Christianity being spread in America in no way, shape, or form resembles Jesus' original teachings... |
and what pray tell is the 'violent gun-loving fundamentalist brand'? Care to provide a definition? Point to a specific voting block and not some leftist drum-beat of demagoguery?
| Quote: | | You're confused. Indoctrination is when you ram political or religious ideas down kids' throats. When you teach them about evolution, that's called education, and NOT indoctrination. |
Teaching kids that all of the matter in the universe organized itself, from nothing, created life, from non-life, and they are nothing more than a zillion generations removed from a piece of slime that washed up on some beach (to be named later) is not a belief? Is not religious?
No... I believe in the final analysis here... both are religious. There are two main differences...
1. One admits it.
2. One requires tax payers to pay to spread it... and then complains (like Dicky boy) when people don't buy into his B.S.
| Quote: | | He wants them to have a fighting chance to throw off the Christian yoke if they want to... And most children raised under a fundamentalist roof certainly don't have this opportunity. *That* is what he refers to as child abuse, and he's got a legitimate argument. |
This "Christian yoke" you are talking about here... to be perfectly clear... is an impediment to what again?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: |
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How about the real child abuse, the imprisonment of 426 Palestinian children, from the ages of 12-18 in Israeli jails. The brutal deaths of 881 children by the Israelis? How about the trauma of constantly being under Israeli occupation, under attack and constant fear. What about seeing your mother or father being shot in cold blood before your eyes?
What of the little schoolgirl Iman al-Hams, literally pumped with Israeli bullets in cold-blood as she walked to school? http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1332219,00.html
Or the infants that died, sometimes along with their mothers, at Israeli checkpoints? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4274400.stm
What dont you look at these underlying reasons of real child abuse, and it figures where sad and distressing pictures like your first post come from.
From UN :
| Quote: | | Particular attention should be drawn to the situation of the children in the Palestinian occupied territories, who suffered daily flagrant violations of their rights at the hands of Israeli forces |
| Quote: | | Palestinian children had suffered both physical and psychological trauma as a result of the incessant violent military assaults, human rights abuses, home demolitions, and land confiscation and destruction. |
| Quote: | | In addition, Palestinian children, who constituted 53 per cent of the population, had also extensively suffered injuries as a result of the excessive and indiscriminate force used by the occupying forces. |
Of course this is, by your very nature, very difficult for you to understand. |
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