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theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

http://portal.tds.net/news.php?story=27130

this is just telling what is happening...and is not support for or against any thing or one, one way or another...but i am interested in input from others about it...

P1234567890 · Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:16 am Post subject:

What exactly do the Democrats think is going to happen if America suddenly pulls out of Iraq?

If there's one thing that the Iraq invasion taught us, it's that superpowers shouldn't make massive 'nation building' decisions in a knee-jerk way.

Making a knee-jerk decision to pull out would be similarly stupid.

It's really too bad that the Bush Administration screwed up so badly in Iraq. If they'd done a better job, then there's no way the Democrats could get this kind of traction.

Also, if Bush's veto is ever overturned, then it will require massive help from Republican Senators, so don't go blaming it all on the evil Democrats.
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

i think that is wise and insightful p38....

45degreeN · Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:17 am Post subject:

I think it is safe to say that something similar to the exit of American troops from Vietnam is a paradigm for what will happen. One can easily find parallels to Iraq. I also know how much the Neo-cons hate this analogy but it is realistic.

The turning over control of South Vietnam did cause some dislocations especially amongst those who suppported us. Many died, many others were "re-educated" however the level of corruption amongst these people was high also. In a few short years it all stablized and Vietnam became a unified country again . It has since become much more interested in coming to terms with the rest of the world and now is actually trading with us again. We have normalized relations with them.

The erroneous claims called the "domino effect" in Vietnam never happened. It was a bogus political ideology that prevent us from leaving they thought that all of south east asia would follow them into communism and it never happened.

In Iraq the erroneous assumption is that terrorism will cover the world if we dont stop it in Iraq. The Neo-cons have chosen to use this as a bat to beat everyone over the head when it comes to Iraq, using their definition, when we leave Iraq they (whoever "they" are) will follow us back to America. Like the bogus Vietnam era bogeyman of communism, their use of the "bat of terror" to scare us into continueing our part of clearly a civil/religious war that exists in Iraq is simply wrong.

By controlling the definitions of such emotive words as losing, or terror, they hope to maintain control of American society and keep their grip on power here.

The truth is that moderate Islam is the only thing that can control their radical elements. Westerners especially Christians have no place in their debate at this time. In fact by being over in Iraq we have only made it worse.

We cannot legitimately expect the Muslims here already to rise up and send America into some twilight zone of terror. By far the Muslims here are the moderate kind and they really enjoy the freedom that America offers them. Lets give those moderating forces time and support and then we needn't worry about the tiny minority who would attack us anyway.
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