The "first of all the commandments"

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 160

Sorry my friend, we are not the same. I believe in One God and I believe we did then and do now need a Savior as prophesied in the Old Testamen and I believe that Yeshua was that Savior.
Einstein was a great man, it is not for me to judge him, or you or anyone else. Most men of science think of themselves as superior not needing anyone especially God. In my humble opinion, any discoveries made by scientiest is simply a discovery of what was already placed here by the God they can't see clear enough to believe in.

zeroKnots · Tadpole Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Oregon

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 160

Yes I believe that Yeshua was a man sent by God to be the Savior.

God chose a man named Abraham to be the Patriarch of a people, His people. These people over the years sinned against Him and you can read about that sin in the Old Testament. In the beginning of this people, God devised a way for their sins to be forgiven through sacrifices, that is also in the Old Testament. When their sins became to great God turned His back on them told to us in the book of Amos.

This is the reason that Yeshua came for the sacrifice of animals and grain was no longer enought for forgiveness, so a greater sacrifice had to be made. Yeshua died on the crose to be that sacrifice so that we, for all time could be forgiven. If you are not a sinner, perhaps you don't need a savior, I for one do.

zeroKnots · Tadpole Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Oregon

Well I don't think any of that is false. And I do see a need for atonement, because if there's one thing creation screams at us, it's balance, and we always ignore it to our demise. But more like justification here than balance.

I guess I must be pretty useless to theologists because I'm looking for something universal.
There would be other saviors on other worlds, and it gets too complicated having any human have to be represented on alien worlds, but the same spirit on infinite worlds works perfectly.
I do see the reason for things in human terms in the bible and would never trivialise the Bible, but I do object to our interpretation and that we resist change.

I also believe animals, for instance, have as much access to God as we, because why would he not want robots in humans but he has animals as our stage-props? That's not a respectful thought of the God that MUST be perfect.
Besides, I can see in their eyes (and hearts) they have spirit.

Sorry I'm incomprehensible as a conversationalist but I have to say what I believe too. Sometimes in pretty weird metaphors, etc.

zeroKnots · Tadpole Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Oregon

But theres a good point. Look at Abraham. He is chosen for one function and Yeshua for another. But to me, their roles are exactly equal as savior because they are the same spirit. (or I believe the spirit is that singular).

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 160

Zeroknots my friend, you will never know what a breath of fresh air you are to me when I read your posts.
The one thing I am hearing is you speak truth as you know it, thank you.
As for other worlds, I believe there are
others out there too, but we have to take it one step at a time. So far we are just getting off the ground so to speak in our search for other life out there. At 71 I doubt if it will be found in my lifetime, so that is something I don't think about too often.

Abraham was the Patriarch for the new faith as God saw it. Out of Him came the nation of Israel God promised to His people. Up until the time of Yeshua Jews could trace their geneology back to Abraham. In 70AD the great temple in Jerusalem was destoyed along with the geneoloies of God's people.

zeroKnots · Tadpole Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Oregon

Thank you. You too, I very much look forward to your posts in all this chaos on the web. It's kind of interesting, you'd think wer're diametricly opposed, but my wild tangents are only justified against your solid foundation.
You do draw the tangent back to normality like I see now (a reverse is true) that the person of Yeshua can't be so readily separated from the spirit(that can perhaps only ever produce Yeshua). Else physical men are the very stage-props I protested against. So that assumes the entire Jewish lineage can also be like a single chosen one on a larger scale.
Guess I just have to accept that both must be true. The spirit can be perfectly all-pervasive and yet physically defined in any context the universe can muster.
Siiigh.. some serious rethinking from here, I do thank you friend. I so appreciate your patience for disjointed thinking.. my being fitted for a straight-jacket. Smile

I guess this is all related to the destruction of the temple where even basic premises changed. I think most people believe it was from reaching a plateau of fulfillment?
Was it deliberate isolation of the Jews from their past as a way of rebooting for a new context?
Like the tower of Babel in my cosmic model is the very personification of indeterminacy. Not so much hobbling potential, but we are drifting too close to Godless predetemination. So Einsein is right, His God would never 'play dice', because 'random' would be a god in itself, but hiding destiny is to be expected at this stage.

Theres just GOT to be a way of combining all forces, science, mysticism and doctrinal accounts of all of it.
It's like I KNOW there will NEVER be a unified field theory until spirit is seriously approached by science.
All we'll have instrad is string-theorists (much like me) spackling fudged numbers together. Smile

Like my brother says: (he`s a machinist) Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a chalk, cut it with an axe, and paint it to fit.

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 160

What reason would there be to unify science, mysticism and spirit. I would prefer to see our faith in Yeshua unified. To see the world unified. To see all peoples unified. Wouldn't it be nice if all people could see themselves as one race, the human race. The last commandments Yeshua gave us was to 'love God with all our hearts, and to love our neighbors as ourselves.' In this we have failed. The pity of it is, these were not hard. He told us to 'take His yoke upon us for His yoke is easy and His burden is light.' He didn't want us to fail, He didn't want our lives to be hard. What in the world happened.

zeroKnots · Tadpole Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Oregon

That's the thing, I know we can be one human race. (or we'd BETTER soon) Theres all these commonalities between faiths. Each claims that only theirs can be true.. maybe only for their region. (seems all we did wrong was we made the world smaller)
Then how admirably unified and civil the scientific community is already even in say, Iran.

The religeons can't ever overlap, I'm sure of that, but maybe a 'super-religeon'? Where it's known by all to be only a starting point of commonalities. No one vieing for importance, they never stops refining understanding of doctrine, but establishes a common ground.
My upbringing finds things I've heard of the koran downright vile, so ok, tollerance at that level but agreement in the super-religeon.
A one-world government scares me to death, but this could actually ennoble soverienty in acknowledging it.

Theres a book 'The Science of God' that sounds like that idea. He defends that the Bible is scientificly dead-on accurate if certain termilonoly is broadenned.
I gotta read that!

zeroKnots · Tadpole Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Oregon

We should humbly acknowledge that Allah is God, but they simply call him by the wrong name. Smile

No?

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

no....

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 160

One world religion, I think that has been tried already and has already failed once.
No Allah is not my God and I don't think He is the only God. The man Mohammad, from what I have read put together a faith based on force.

The God I worship teaches love, not brutality. So if you are asking me if I believe in Islam, not in a million years.

zeroKnots · Tadpole Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Oregon

I'm with you on that. Not in a million years would I insult and use God the way they have.
Yeah, there would be agreement that there is one God, but what good has that been.
My dad was an atheist sort of mystic. He said it wasnt so much they killed Christ because he blasphemed by implying he was son of God, but that this implied in their minds that THEY then werent.
Kind of rings true on a world-wide scale these days.

apocatastasis · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 1827

zero and rocket,

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your exchanges. Productive and genuine discussion is such a beautifully rare gem on forums like this.
_________________
"Overcome anger by love. Overcome evil by good. Overcome the miser by giving. Overcome the liar by truth."

Rocket · House Cat Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 160

The Jewish people did not kill Yeshua, the priest in the temple were behind that, for they knew Yeshua knew their hearts. In reality though, according to the Old Testament Yeshua was the lamb of God and in order to take away the sins of the world it was necessary for Him to die.

I believe the Bible was meant to be one book from Genesis to Revelations, and I do not believe God meant to change the faith of His people the Isrealites. We call these people Jews today, but these Jews are from one of the 12 tribes out of Judah thus the name Jew. Many scholars today believe that the other tribes were scattered in Europe and that many of todays so called Christians have a background or geneology that stems from one of those 11 tribes.

I have done a lot of geneology on my own family. My mother was a Jew and came to this county from Poland, so after I finished on my fathers side I started on my mothers family. I wrote to the bureou of vitalstatistics in Poland and my anser was, 'sorry Hitler destroyed all records.' So I tried to find out why as a Jew her family was in Poland in the first place.