 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Pondering wrote: |
I think the current group of Dem "leadership" is the worst their party can offer...
|
I agree. I assert that the group of Republicans who were in charge for the last half-decade (in the White House, the House, and the Senate) were also the worst that their party could offer. Do you agree with this?
| Pondering wrote: |
Both sides assume we're stupid and feel that whenever "they" have the majority, it is their "duty" to run things out to one extreme or another...it's not the first time in our history, but it's unusual during wartime.... that's what I find so galling...not that there is infighting between the parties, but that they're so public about it...and the Dems seem to pride themselves on it...
|
I agree that it's really bad. Still, it sounds to me like you don't despise the Republican party nearly enough.
| Pondering wrote: |
The Repubs were arrogant, abusive, and full of hubris...
|
Better... 
| Pondering wrote: |
they grew gov't more than any previous Repub adminstration...
|
Actually, they grew it more than ANY previous administration, blue or red, which is why I claim that they are not Republicans at all; they are something else.
| Pondering wrote: |
that's part of why they got bounced. But frankly, I find the recent Dem leadership to be disgraceful, bordering on treason.... |
I agree.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm just in the middle of an interesting WWII documentary about Germany's conquest of Poland and France.
Germany's attack on Poland is remembered as a textbook example of modern invasion warfare. Their casualties were considered very light, and it only took them a couple of weeks to get the job done.
But here's the interesting part: Germany had 44,000 casualties in those few weeks.
America has lost about 3000 soldiers KIA in 4 YEARS of the Iraq war, and about 10,000 or so wounded... To say that America is 'losing' in Iraq is outrageously ridiculous by any historical standards.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1501
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not sure how to respond to that, except..CORRECTOMUNDO!
However, warfare (Military) is just one element or way of expressing national will...it's other elements are Diplomatic (or Political), Informational, and Economic....if any one of those 3 "fail", you loose....
Vietnam was "lost" not militarily (even in terms of "heavy" casualties) but rather due to the loss of internal political will...
One half of our "Leadership" has "lost the will", yet what really upsets me is that they're doing it for short term political gain...
Reid stated that he already discounted anything Gen Petraeus has to say and Pelosi was "unavailable" to attend the hearings...yet she could fly to Syria 
They say you get the government you deserve....
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| then why did you support the displacement of saddam?... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1501
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not sure who you're addressing TSS...
If you ask me, it's because he was a genocidal megalomaniac that had aspirations of regional dominance with delusions of becoming a nuclear power without the checks and balances of a democratic society....but that's just me...
You know what's really funny? Several of the most vocal "get out of Iraq" voices want to pull our troops out of Iraq...to send them to Sudan! To intervene in a civil war between Christians and Muslims! I'm sure that'll work out great....
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| so?...what if saddam was all those nasty things and then some...if the iraqi people had the gov they deserved...then we should have left him alone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Pondering wrote: | I'm not sure how to respond to that, except..CORRECTOMUNDO!
However, warfare (Military) is just one element or way of expressing national will...it's other elements are Diplomatic (or Political), Informational, and Economic....if any one of those 3 "fail", you loose....
Vietnam was "lost" not militarily (even in terms of "heavy" casualties) but rather due to the loss of internal political will...
One half of our "Leadership" has "lost the will", yet what really upsets me is that they're doing it for short term political gain...
Reid stated that he already discounted anything Gen Petraeus has to say and Pelosi was "unavailable" to attend the hearings...yet she could fly to Syria
They say you get the government you deserve.... |
In principle I agree with what you're saying. The Democrats are scumbags who are definitely not doing what's best for the country. However, you seem to support the Republicans, and in my opinion they're even worse in that category than the Democrats are; they DEFINITELY are not looking out for the best interests of America.
You should be condemning both sides.
I think that the war in Iraq should be continued, but that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Pearle, and Rove should all be sent to jail.
Many of the high-level democrats, including those who voted for the Iraq war should also be sent to jail.
Then the 'war on terror' should be carried out properly.
Media monopolies should be broken, and campaign donations should be completely removed from the political arena.
If you want to make America a better place, then these are the measures you should support.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| i agree p38...and must point that if they want to send bush off...the high ranking dem's should go with him and his.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1501
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gen Petraeus brief Congress yesterday on "Progress in Iraq"....
this is the briefing that Pelosi was too busy for and Reid dismissed as "unable to tell me anything I don't already know..."
Transcript
Now for just a bit of context...
The American Colonies fought a Revolution against Britain from 1776-1783. While that Revolution was going on, there was even some "civil strife" between Loyalists and Revolutionaries...homes were burned, folks were tarred and feathered, etc, etc...
First Gov't was established in 1777 under the Articles of Confederation (ratified in 1781)....
Between 1783 and 1788, 2 rebellions (Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion) were surpressed..both were "local" events against taxation policies...the outcome of those 2 rebellions was the Constitution (ratified in 1788)....
My point? Democracies are hard to build...even harder when external elements (Iran and al-Queda) are deliberately trying to undermine the efforts....
but we seem to forget our own "birthing pains"...
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
Iraq's democratic 'birthing pains' are much, much, much worse than they needed to be due to the major incompetence of the White House. I put most of the blame on Rumsfeld, Bremmer, and Cheney. But of course oversight is Bush's job, so he doesn't get away clean either.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
Last edited by P1234567890 on Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1501
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
You've got a point....but walking away is most definately NOT a solution...
moreover, the Dems are flat-out lying. You've been very critical of Bush and Co regarding insinuations between Sadaam and al-Queda and statements regarding Sadaam and WMD....
similarly, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton and crew are saying "out of Iraq", but the fine text of their resolution leaves alot of folks in Iraq in order to:
1) Fight al-Queda
2) Train Iraqis
3) Protect US infrastructure in order to do 1 and 2 above...
No details of course...no cap on strength or prediction of number of personel required to do 1-3.....and almost no reporting in the open press....
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Pondering wrote: | You've got a point....but walking away is most definately NOT a solution...
|
And I'm not saying it is. Now that Bush & friends have created this horrible mess, we obviously shouldn't just walk away from it.
(Unless, of course, walking away from it has a high probability of fomenting a pan-Islamic civil war, in which case it might be a good idea, but I doubt that is what the Dems are thinking.)
| Pondering wrote: |
moreover, the Dems are flat-out lying. You've been very critical of Bush and Co regarding insinuations between Sadaam and al-Queda and statements regarding Sadaam and WMD....
|
And he should be criticized for that; the White House misled and manipulated the American people into supporting the war.
| Pondering wrote: |
similarly, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton and crew are saying "out of Iraq", but the fine text of their resolution leaves alot of folks in Iraq in order to:
1) Fight al-Queda
2) Train Iraqis
3) Protect US infrastructure in order to do 1 and 2 above...
No details of course...no cap on strength or prediction of number of personel required to do 1-3.....and almost no reporting in the open press.... |
If you're trying to get me to defend the Democrats, then you're barking up the wrong tree. As I've stated many times, they're idiots.
Hillary in particular is an outrageous hypocrite; she betrayed the American people by neglecting her duty to keep the President in check with his crazy warmongering when she voted for the war. That was *really* bad of her; she obviously just did it because Sept. 11th happened mostly in New York. In my opinion she forfeited her right to represent the American people when she betrayed them like that.
Of course, the people in the White House betrayed the American people in even more heinous ways, but that seems to be the nature of the beast today: all you've got is a bunch of losers, and not a single one of them is putting America first.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1501
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
not looking to defend them...i'm just using this as my outlet to present facts...or even multiple facets of a complex problem....generally, we hear only one side of an argument that supports the speakers pre-held opinion....
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Pondering wrote: | | not looking to defend them...i'm just using this as my outlet to present facts...or even multiple facets of a complex problem....generally, we hear only one side of an argument that supports the speakers pre-held opinion.... |
Luckily for me, I get exactly 0% of my news from the major outlets, so I avoid the whole problem!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1501
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
then I think you're missing part of the story...because most folks do get their news from the "major outlets"...and the picture they paint becomes reality....
Where do you get your news?
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
