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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1511
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | After we invaded Iraq the only people with uniforms quickly vanished and all we had to shoot at were "civilians", does that mean we are subject to the Geneva conventions for deliberately killing civilians? |
You're mixing metaphors...but in short "yes"....civilians killed incident to military action are "collateral damage"...pulling Abdul out his house and shooting him in the head is murder....
| dim12trav wrote: |
When faced with someone out of uniform but with military style weapon is that a civilian or not? |
The Laws of Land Warfare govern...those are clarified under Rules of Engagement....in short, it depends.
In Iraq, civilians are allowed to have 1 AK-47 in their home for home defense....so, the guy running along with an RPG.....
| dim12trav wrote: |
Can we shoot them or not? |
Again, ROE and Law of Landwarfare usely puts this in terms of Hostile Intent...you shoot at me or point your gun at me, you just became a combatant and I can shoot you...
| dim12trav wrote: |
Or can we assume they are military? |
why would you assume that? The distinctions are between "combatant" and "non-combatant"...actions and intent are more important than affilitation/clothing.
| dim12trav wrote: |
If we include the issue of spying, how many bribes have we given out for information already in this war, doesn't that make them spies for us? |
Yes...
| dim12trav wrote: |
Makes them subject to execution/killing by the enemy doesn't it? |
First, they already are killing them. Second, al-Queda is a not a state nor a signatory to the Geneva Conventions so that point is moot. Third, as a Signatory Nation, the US places restrictions upon itself that it knows not everyone else will adhere to...compare POW treatment of Japanese soldiers in US hands and American soldiers in Japanese hands....
| dim12trav wrote: |
Bush cant have it both ways. Either we are fighting a war against a known enemy with all the "rights" of being our enemy, or we are violating our own ethics by waging war against civilians. Just because our enemy has chosen to wage this war cloaked (primarily without uniforms) doesn't cancel out their status as combatants and prevents the application of the charges of murder. |
Well, the problem is...what do you do with the ones you catch? Unless you're in favor of arbitrary summary execution (i.e., "Take no Prisoners") you really have to find a way to deal with them that a) takes them out of the fight and b) doesn't destroy your own countries belief in the Rule of Law....current Laws don't adequetely deal with "a".....
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8321
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: |
Well, the problem is...what do you do with the ones you catch? Unless you're in favor of arbitrary summary execution (i.e., "Take no Prisoners") you really have to find a way to deal with them that a) takes them out of the fight and b) doesn't destroy your own countries belief in the Rule of Law....current Laws don't adequetely deal with "a"..... |
Summary execution also violates the Geneva Conventions. If someone surrenders, you must take them prisoner.
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2672
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Surrendering is in the eye of the shooter, (I thought he was reaching for his weapon that's why I shot him).
It works with the police here most of the time here in Portland Oregon we've had several cases where the police shot unarmed or poorly armed people. Cases where they might have disarmed them, used alternative weapons, or negotiated a surrender but they didn't.
There are ways to make sure the enemy doesn't surrender. These techniques may not be according to Geneva but it isn't that hard a thing to do and get away with.
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