Free Speach and the Left

Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1506

The survey population was 1,281 (First page N=1,281).

"N" is the symbol in statistics for population size...
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P1234567890 · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:30 am Post subject:

That's right. So like I said in the first place, Americans want universal health care AND they're willing to pay higher taxes for it.

It's only the politicians, in this case BOTH the Democrats and Republicans who are making sure that it doesn't happen, because they are beholden to corporations rather than to the people who they're supposed to be representing.

The next time your crazy hippie uncle is going on about the failures of capitalism and how America's politicians are in the pockets of corporations you should pay more attention because maybe there's something to his rants after all.
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Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Ana · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:37 am Post subject:

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7003 Location: USA

Sorry folks, I looked for the populatiion record and did not see that it was actually 1281. Nor did I see a descriptor of what the numbers referred to (either respondents or % of respondents) so I errroneously made the assumption that the population was 100.

I feel soooooooo much better now knowing that the actual population of respondents was 1281 rather than 100, it makes the whole thing soooooo much more reliable.
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Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1506

No problem....I took no offense and was just trying to point out the sample size...

Didn't see alot of other details though for how they got that sample...

The sample size is statistically valid (If I recall my social Statistics class correctly, a randon sample of around 1400 people will hold true and be representative)... however, there are "lies, damned lies, and statistics" so it is possible to skew the sample based on the sampling method.

If it is a phone based sample, alot of those called won't elect to take the survey (same with email), so there can be sampling bias there...same with "man on the street", which also factor in variables like "where did you physically go to sample the population"...

Surveys are fine for what they are, but opinion polls are skewy at best...and it's important to look at the questions as they can also produce sampling bias...from word choice, phrasing, to sequencing...they can all lead respondents to answer "the way you want them to"

A survey like this for a Masters or PhD program would include a demographic breakdown..that's missing in this case and worth noting...

The questions:
"Do you support capital punishment"
"Do you support capital punishment over life in prison" are basically the same question, but respondents will answer them differently based on the selectors...
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Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1506

doh! just read down to the demographics....looks pretty good (i.e. statistically valid)...

personally, I would have like to see the Total # of respondents by question...but what are you gonna do? Wink

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saibe · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject:

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1506

Long post, slightly off topic, but if we can move past the ad hominum attacks on each other's IQ, I think will help frame what we're talking about..

First, the photos of caskets on the flight line lack context and only highlight the horrorible facts that war is costly exercise....

Now compare it to this:

The author is retired Marine LtGen McCorkle (his bio here

His Last Flight

February 17, 2007, 0350 curbside at 24th and M, Washington DC. 16 Degrees with a light breeze. Going home after my second week of freezing temps to my home in SoCal. Fly my aircraft, ride a horse, climb a mountain and get back to living. I'm tired of the cold…0425 paying the taxi fare at Dulles in front of the United Airlines counter, still cold.

0450 engaging the self-serve ticket machine and it delivers my ticket, baggage tag and boarding pass. Hmmm, that Marine is all dressed up early Oh, maybe,,,Hmm, 'Good Morning Captain, you're looking sharp.' Pass Security and to my gate for a quick decaf coffee and 5 hours sleep. A quick check of the flight status monitor and UA Flt 211 is on time, I'm up front, how bad can it be? Hmmm, that same Marine, he must be heading to Pendleton to see his lady at LAX for the long weekend all dressed up like that? Or maybe not?

Attention in the boarding area, we will begin boarding in 10 minutes, we have some additional duties to attend to this morning but we will have you out of here on time. That Captain now has five others with him, BINGO, I get it, he is not visiting his lady, he's an official escort. How I remember doing that once, CACO duty. I still remember the names of the victim and family, The Bruno Family in Mojave, all of them, wow, that was 24 years ago. I wonder if we will ever know who and why?

On board, 0600: "Good morning folks this is the Captain." This morning we have been attending to some additional duties and I apologize for being 10
minutes late for pushback but believe me we will be early to LAX.

This morning it is my sad pleasure to announce that 1st LT Jared Landaker USMC will be flying with us to his Big Bear home in Southern California. Jared lost his life in the skies of Iraq earlier this month and today we have the
honor of returning him home along with his Mother, Father, Brother and uncles.

Please join me in making the journey comfortable for the Landakerfamily and their uniformed escort. Now sit back and enjoy our ride, we are not expecting any turbulence until we reach the Rocky Mountains and at that time we will do what we can to ensure a smooth ride.

For those interested you can listen in to our progress on button "Up button 9: Good morning UA 211 you are cleared to taxi, takeoff and cleared to LAX as filed.
From the time we started rolling we never stopped.

1st LT Landaker began receiving his due.

4 hours and 35 minutes later over Big Bear MT, the AB320 makes a left roll and steep bank and then one to the right. Nice touch CAPTAIN.

Five minutes out from landing, the Captain, "Ladies and Gents after landing I'm leaving the fasten seatbelt sign on and I ask everyone in advance to yield to the Landaker family. Please remain seated until all members have departed the aircraft. Thank you for your patience, we are 20 minutes early."

On roll out, I notice red lights, emergency vehicles everywhere. We are being escorted directly to our gate, no waiting anywhere, not even a pause.

Out the left window, a dozen Marines in full dress blues. Highway Patrol, Police, Fire crews all in full dress with lights on. A true class act by everyone, down to a person from coast to coast. Way to go United Airlines for doing the little things RIGHT, because they are the big things; Air Traffic Control for getting the message, to all law enforcement for your display of brotherhood.

When the family departed the aircraft everyone sat silent, then I heard a lady say, 'God Bless You and your Family, Thank You.' Then another, then another, then a somber round of applause. The Captain read a prepared note from Mrs. Landaker to the effect, 'Thank you all for your patience and heartfelt concern for us and our son. We sincerely appreciate the sentiment. It is nice to have Jared home.'

After departing the a/c I found myself along with 30 others from our flight looking for a window. Not a dry eye in the craft. All of us were bawling like babies. It was one of the most emotional moments of my life. We all stood silent and watched as Jared was taken by his honor guard to an awaiting hearse. Then the motorcade slowly made it's way off the ramp.

I have finally seen the silent majority. It is deep within us all. Black, Brown, White, Yellow, Red, Purple, we are all children, parents, brothers, sisters, etc, we are an American family.

What you don't know is that on the flight I was tapped on the shoulder by Mrs. Landaker who introduced herself to me after I awoke.

Early in our taxi out from the gate at Dulles, the gent next to me (a Fairfax City Council Member and acquaintance of the Thuot family) were talking to the flight attendant and mentioned that we had sons serving on active duty, 'What do you say? How tragic, they must be devastated.' He said many of the passengers had told him the same thing so somewhere in the flight he shared his tidbits with Mrs. Landaker Our flight attendant had
been struggling with what to say, to find the right words, so he told the Landaker family of passengers who were parents of service members who connected with their grief as parents. After I gathered myself, I stepped back to their row, two behind me and introduced myself to Mr. Landaker (a Veteran of South East Asia as a Tanker) and Jared's uncle and brother. What a somber moment. Their Marine Captain escort was a first rate class act.

He had been Jared's tactics instructor and volunteered for this assignment, as he said, 'Sir, it is the least I could do, he was my friend and a great stick. He absolutely loved to fly,' It's an honor to be here on his last flight.'

1115: On my connecting flight, my mind raced. How lucky I was to have had an opportunity to fly my father to Spain and ride the carrier USS John F. Kennedy home in 1981. The same year Jared was born. How lucky I was to have my father on the crows landing when I made my final cat shot in an F-14. Jared's father never had that chance. Jared was at war, 10,000 miles away.

When Mr. Landaker and I were talking he shared with me, 'When Jared was born he had no soft spot on his head and Drs feared he would be developmentally challenged. He became a Physics Major with Honors, high school and college athlete, and graduated with distinction from naval
aviation flight school! He was short in stature, but a Marine all the way. Visit his life story on line at www.bigbeargrizzly.net
<http://www.bigbeargrizzly.net/> . Bring tissue.

February 7, 2007, Anbar Province, Iraq. 1st LT Jared Landaker United States Marine Corps, Hero, from Big Bear California, gave his live in service to his country. Fatally wounded when his CH-46 helicopter was shot down by enemy fire, Jared and his crew all perished. His life was the ultimate sacrifice of a grateful military family and nation. His death occurred at the same time as Anna Nicole Smith, a drug-using person with a 7th grade
education of no pedigree who dominated our news for two weeks while Jared became a number on CNN. And most unfortunately, Jared's death underscores a
fact that we are a military at war, not a nation at war. Until we become a nation committed to winning the fight, and elect leaders with the spine to ask Americans to sacrifice in order to win, we shall remain committed to being a nation with a military at war, and nothing more. (And possibly no funding if congress has their way!)

1st LT Landaker, a man I came to know in the sky's over America on 17 February 2007, from me to you, aviator to aviator, I am unbelievably humbled. It was my high honor to share your last flight. God bless you.

That is how you honor a man that was a good shephard (John 10:11 if you missed the reference) so that other men might live free...
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Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Amen.

Quick story about this subject and I'll sit down and shut my yip.

November 2003... two UH-60s collide over Mosul. One was pulling out of a low hover due to small arms fire, and another... carrying soldiers on their first leg of a journey home on R&R leave, who had just left the base I was at, came flying in to provide covering fire. They didn't communicate properly and both crashed after colliding.... killing 17 soldiers.

The news of this crash hit lit a fricking hammer. 17 people... dead... in less than a minute. How do you make sense of that? When you start going down the list of names... some you know, some you are familiar with, some you haven't a clue... the reality that these soldiers will never see their loved ones, or they them, ever again... is like cutting your heart out with a spoon.

Then comes the memorial ceremony. This ceremony allows some of those who worked and served with the soldiers to speak publicly about what they meant to them... sad... very sad. Then, comes the part about who they left behind...

Remember the part about soldiers going home on their 2 weeks of R&R??? OK... one of these fellas was going home because wife had just delivered twins... twins that will never see their father... a mother who now must raise these children on her own... and a father who is now going to miss out on one of the biggest admonishments God created us for. To watch, grown men, women, warriors, leaders from every level... stand there, tears pouring down their faces, grieving these losses... is prolly one of the saddest moments in my life… until Taps is played of course… even the bugler cries…

Accompanying the remains of these soldiers back home are their squad leaders, platoon sergeant... platoon leader... it all depends. Every honor you could imagine is passed on the remains of these folks... from the preparation of the bodies, the transportation of the caskets, to the handling of the administrative paper drill that accompanies it. My point… this also includes the unloading of the caskets from the C17s when they land.

I believe I have mentioned this several times before... and I'm going to state it again to place this in context for you... when reading and watching the news while in Iraq I found it very difficult to reconcile what was being broadcast and what I knew was occurring on the ground. The facts were USUALLY wrong, or... worse, they were distorted to make some point about how terrible the conditions were for the Iraqi people or how incompetent their or our government was, etc... The news/media... most of it anyway, does not like our President (and yes... I honestly believe that they have quantifiably demonstrated this) and I believe they have purposefully distorted events, facts, and figures and only selected derogatory stories for airing to damage him... and if that means doing it with what happens in Iraq... so be it... the troops be damned... as their morale is not as important as getting the ‘news’ out.

So, based on what I have seen, experienced, and know... I don't want some leftist pinko reporter... whose toughest experiences in life have been waking up with a hangover... posting photos of the caskets of soldiers who died providing him the right to abuse them to score points against a President and war he hates.

No one is trying to restrict anyone’s first amendment rights here to see these things… sometimes freedom means exercising the inherent responsibility to step aside, remove your hat, cover your heart, and say a simple thank you… and lay aside your perceived right to see the photos of their caskets being off-loaded. Especially, if other ill intentioned folks might start using these photos as another propaganda tool (as demonstrated during Vietnam) to smear and weaken our country’s resolve to win this thing. Which, IMHO, would be dishonoring the sacrifice of the soldiers you are speaking of honoring.
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RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7003 Location: USA

and all the people said...

Amen!
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