Iraq War Profiteering

P1234567890 · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: Iraq War Profiteering

For all those of you who think that Halliburton and KBR are not completely evil, check out the documentary called "Iraq for Sale -The War Profiteers".

What they do can only be described as theft.

Example: they set up a sweet deal with the then-Republican-controlled government in which they would get all of their costs reimbursed plus some percentage of those costs. So they tried EXTREMELY hard to spend as much money as possible. For example, they were putting up their truck drivers in $3000 a night resorts, scrapping vehicles if a tire went flat and buying new ones, that kind of thing.

They also ran unnecessary convoys in order to increase costs (and therefore profits), and plenty of truck drivers died unnecessarily while driving in these unnecessary convoys.

If there's ever been a more heinous case of a corporation recklessly endangering its employees, then I've never seen it.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.

P1234567890 · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject:

While I'm on a roll expounding on how virtuous corporations are, here is another fine example of capitalism gone awry:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/news/companies/ford_execpay/index.htm?cnn=yes
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.

Ana · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject:

P1234567890 · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject:

lone-traveler · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject:

Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1512

http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/news/international/iraq_oil/index.htm

Just for What that's worth....

we can go down this path again, but to summarize:

1) Sadly, war profiteering is nothing new and will be repeated in any future conflict
2) We have not mobilized the nation for war, so we contract out the support services needed to sustain an army in the field...and folks see a great opportunity to make mucho dinero from that need
3) When we do contract those services, some people (management) make a ton of cash...but the people they hire do pretty well too...I already posted about the Kosovar women that worked the laundry facility at a US base and made about 400% more than the "average local wage"...

so I don't really know what your point is. It seems the current government (Congress) thinking is "When we have a conflict, we'll pay thru the nose for the services we need, but since (until Iraq) conflicts have been short term, it saves money in the long run since we won't pay the standing overhead, employee benefits, retirement, etc, etc, etc..."

A "long war" approach breaks that model...but politically, there's no way we're going to put even 10% of our "manpower" in uniform...

In World War II, 16.1 million Americans served in the military between 1941-1946. US population was about 135 million at that time. That's about 12%. Lots of other folks worked as civilians or in the defense industry...

Today, about 1.5 milllion Americans serve on Active Duty with another 2.5 million in the Guard and Reserve. US population is almost 300 million. That's about 2 % of the population.

(quote taken from another board/thread)
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it."

Census data
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P1234567890 · Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:49 am Post subject:

Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1512

Ok...I understand now...

First, as stated before Halliburton and KBR is the ONLY company capable of providing the service...yes, the government could have contracted out pieces and parts to a whole number of folks, but that's like complicated n' hard n' stuff Wink

Honestly, KBR has been the US Army's strategic logistics element since around 1995...that was part of the peace dividend (wherein the US routinely demobilizes after a conflict...however, wanting to keep combat troops, most of the cuts came in support services with the intent to contract out that stuff when needed...)

Second, convoys roll empty all the time...If I take a load of water from supply base A to combat base B...how do I get those trucks back to supply base A? Don't you think they'd HAVE to run empty sometimes? That's an argument from emotion I expect that focusing on the "unnecessary risk" placed upon the drivers without really thinking the problem thru...

Unless of course, they truly were "empty runs" to and from...and yes, that can be a result of profiteering or bureacracy..."The schedule says we are to make 10 runs per week...we've only run 3 times this week, so go make 7 runs" But the trucks are empty Do not argue with me...we have to make 10 runs...so go!" I

It happens. Watch the TV show MASH or read Catch-22...there are some honest truisms (good/bad/funny and sad) in both of those fictional events....

As for corruption at the highest levels....this is new? How do you think Presidential candidates raise Tens of Millions of Dollars in months? You think "Average Joe" gave a total of $50 million to Shrillery and Obama in individual donation of $5 and $10? c'mon...don't be naive...

Look at the $40 billion in pork in the "emergency supplemental Iraq funding bill"...that's buying votes....which I think is worse.
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan

P1234567890 · Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:42 am Post subject:

Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1512

P1234567890 · Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject:

If we could actually use the word 'effective' to describe the U.S. occupation of Iraq, then you might have an argument...

You have to admit that critics have a lot of ammunition to work with here... From where I'm standing, it looks like a poorly planned and executed operation, and it's HIGHLY suspicious that the VP's old company got those sweetheart deals and on top of it feels like it needs to steal from the American taxpayers.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.

saibe · Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject:

We thought we could get in and get out and make quick buck wars are always used to for capitilization.