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pmac
Newbie Alert
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: what is a JehovaH witness |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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a cult member...  |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1973
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: |
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pmac,
Hi,
A Jehovah's Witness is a person who appreciates and follows the Bible as God's written word, and follows in the footsteps their exempler, Jesus Christ, who is called "the faithful witness" in Revelation. Jesus drew attention to his Father as the only true God and sought to honor and glorify Him as such.
A breif summary:
| Quote: |
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Definition: The worldwide Christian society of people who actively bear witness regarding Jehovah God and his purposes affecting mankind. They base their beliefs solely on the Bible.
What beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses set them apart as different from other religions?
(1) Bible: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God, and instead of adhering to a creed based on human tradition, they hold to the Bible as the standard for all their beliefs.
(2) God: They worship Jehovah as the only true God and freely speak to others about him and his loving purposes toward mankind. Anyone who publicly witnesses about Jehovah is usually identified as belonging to the one group—“Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
(3) Jesus Christ: They believe, not that Jesus Christ is part of a Trinity, but that, as the Bible says, he is the Son of God, the first of God’s creations; that he had a prehuman existence and that his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a virgin, Mary; that his perfect human life laid down in sacrifice makes possible salvation to eternal life for those who exercise faith; that Christ is actively ruling as King, with God-given authority over all the earth since 1914.
(4) God’s Kingdom: They believe that God’s Kingdom is the only hope for mankind; that it is a real government; that it will soon destroy the present wicked system of things, including all human governments, and that it will produce a new system in which righteousness will prevail.
(5) Heavenly life: They believe that 144,000 spirit-anointed Christians will share with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom, ruling as kings with him. They do not believe that heaven is the reward for everyone who is “good.”
(6) The earth: They believe that God’s original purpose for the earth will be fulfilled; that the earth will be completely populated by worshipers of Jehovah and that these will be able to enjoy eternal life in human perfection; that even the dead will be raised to an opportunity to share in these blessings.
(7) Death: They believe that the dead are conscious of absolutely nothing; that they are experiencing neither pain nor pleasure in some spirit realm; that they do not exist except in God’s memory, so hope for their future life lies in a resurrection from the dead.
(8) Last days: They believe that we are living now, since 1914, in the last days of this wicked system of things; and we will soon see the complete destruction of the present wicked world; that lovers of righteousness will survive into a cleansed earth.
(9) Separate from the world: They earnestly endeavor to be no part of the world, as Jesus said would be true of his followers. They show genuine Christian love for their neighbors, but they do not share in the politics or the wars of any nation. They provide for the material needs of their families but shun the world’s avid pursuit of material things and personal fame and its excessive indulgence in pleasure.
(10) Apply Bible counsel: They believe that it is important to apply the counsel of God’s Word in everyday life now—at home, in school, in business, in their congregation. Regardless of a person’s past way of life, he may become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses if he abandons practices condemned by God’s Word and applies its godly counsel. But if anyone thereafter makes a practice of adultery, fornication, homosexuality, drug abuse, drunkenness, lying, or stealing, he will be disfellowshipped from the organization. |
Some bitter people call us a cult, but as you know the first century Christians were spoken against as well.
If you have any questions feel free to ask.
Take care.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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saibe
Ferret
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 120
Location: houston tx
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | (5) Heavenly life: They believe that 144,000 spirit-anointed Christians will share with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom, ruling as kings with him. They do not believe that heaven is the reward for everyone who is “good.”
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I was once approached by a Jehova's witness, and he told me that only 144,000 people were going to heaven. I was at the gas station and I happen to have my bible in the car, so we argued back and forth about this passage. I showed him John 3:16 and referenced a a script. in Rev. about the 144 thous. I was a young christian then and did't study much of the bible, but I knew that wasn't true. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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good going....
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knuckle
Young Wolf
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 501
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Hi All--------
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
We note two things---1 that we will be with Jesus in a place prepared for us and 2 that the City comes down from heaven and we will dwell with God there
Heaven is where God is, perhaps it is not so much a place as it is being with Him.
much love--------knuckle |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: |
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1Cr 12:12 ¶ For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Cr 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Cr 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. (many mansions)...
2Cr 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Pe 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting [you] in remembrance;
2Pe 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off [this] my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [and] wonderfully made: marvellous [are] thy works; and [that] my soul knoweth right well.
(Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.)
Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, [and] curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them.
(Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.)
1Jo 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
1Cr 4:20 For the kingdom of God [is] not in word, but in power.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
2Cr 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2Cr 4:7 ¶ But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6913
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| knuckle wrote: | | Heaven is where God is, perhaps it is not so much a place as it is being with Him. |
So much truth here.
There are only to eternal truths that I, as a bible believing Christian, can be absolutely sure of:
1) There are those who will spend eternity with God
and
2) There are those who will spend eternity without God
All beliefs of heaven and hell stem from these two truths and most of it is irrelevant for eternity with God is heavenly and an eternity without God would be hellish.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1973
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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saibe,
Hi,
| saibe wrote: | | I was once approached by a Jehova's witness, and he told me that only 144,000 people were going to heaven. I was at the gas station and I happen to have my bible in the car, so we argued back and forth about this passage. I showed him John 3:16 and referenced a a script. in Rev. about the 144 thous. I was a young christian then and did't study much of the bible, but I knew that wasn't true. |
John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
Going to heaven isn't the only way to receive everlasting life. It is true that everyone excercising faith in Jesus can have everlasting life. However it is also true that only 144,000 are going to heaven to rule with Christ in heaven. Again, these ones rule over the earth with Christ, and notice what the conditions on earth will be.
When God's kingdom begins ruling fully over the earth NOTICE:
Rev 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
The majority of people will receive everlasting life on earth. That is the prospect Adam had before him. Adam willfully lost that hope for himself and his offspring. Jesus bought back that prospect for Adam's offspring. Thus such scriptures can be fulfilled.
Ps 37:29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.
Later.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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saibe
Ferret
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 120
Location: houston tx
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | saibe,
Hi,
| saibe wrote: | | I was once approached by a Jehova's witness, and he told me that only 144,000 people were going to heaven. I was at the gas station and I happen to have my bible in the car, so we argued back and forth about this passage. I showed him John 3:16 and referenced a a script. in Rev. about the 144 thous. I was a young christian then and did't study much of the bible, but I knew that wasn't true. |
John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
Going to heaven isn't the only way to receive everlasting life. It is true that everyone excercising faith in Jesus can have everlasting life. However it is also true that only 144,000 are going to heaven to rule with Christ in heaven. Again, these ones rule over the earth with Christ, and notice what the conditions on earth will be.
When God's kingdom begins ruling fully over the earth NOTICE:
Rev 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
The majority of people will receive everlasting life on earth. That is the prospect Adam had before him. Adam willfully lost that hope for himself and his offspring. Jesus bought back that prospect for Adam's offspring. Thus such scriptures can be fulfilled.
Ps 37:29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.
Later. |
Once I became a christian so many wonderful things proceeded after I beleived in Jesus, one is that I will not be damned to a hell in the lake of fire this is where I was headed before my rebirth. When I mentioned heaven I meant in the presense of God.
Matt. 25:31-46
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Do you beleive you will be one of the 144 thous.? |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1973
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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saide,
Hi,
In this sence I view heaven as the invisible realm where God and his spirit creatures live. The 144,000 who die are resurrected to these heavens, and the rest who are resurrected are brought back on earth, both the righteous and the unrighteous. Sinse the tent of God is with mankind at Rev 21 they are in paradise, but I don't call that "heaven".
| saide wrote: | | Do you beleive you will be one of the 144 thous.? |
No. My hope is to live on earth forever enjoying the kingdom blessings.
The 144,000 rule as kings and priests over the earth. When Jesus and the 144,000 rule over the earth what kind of conditions do you suppose those on earth will enjoy?
If Adam and Eve never sinned do you suppose they would still be alive on earth today?
Later.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| amen jp... |
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bibletalk
Tadpole
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 17
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: Difficulty with Witness organization and teaching |
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Jehovah’s Witnesses operate under a strong, central, human authority. Teaching is achieved largely through memorization techniques. Material is read aloud and individuals restate the material in the same or their own words. By this means a unified message is presented to non-Witnesses. Many have become much more familiar with the Bible through Witness teaching activity.
Problems that come with this approach are difficulties correcting errors, learning new things and dealing with honest differences of opinion. Even those providing instruction materials have a great faith in what has been taught in the past and so find it hard to give up or change any of that “God given” truth. Teachings with limited Bible basis are strongly upheld and linger long after they should have been abandoned.
For example, it has long been taught that the selection of the 144,000 who go to heaven was completed about 1935. It seems that after that, most of those becoming Witnesses felt they were going to live on earth forever, not go to heaven. However, the Watchtower magazine of May 1, 2007 says that the selection is still going on. Apparently this conclusion is based on the number of those who became Witnesses after 1935 who feel that they’ve been selected for heavenly life. |
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