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mag_dala55
Tadpole
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: "The first of all the commandments" |
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Quite amazing when I heard our Lord told a humble Scribe about, “The first of all the commandments,” Here is their conversation:
This Scribe is different from many. He is humble and appears sincere in asking our Lord:
Mar 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
Our Lord, always serious, told him:
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
At first glance, I thought the answer of our Lord was not relevant to the question. It appears as if it is only a statement of fact/truth. How could the reply be a “commandment” when this indicates something “to do” or “to obey?” No wonder this “first of all the commandments” is often ignored in BIBLE STUDIES. Rather the focus is on the following:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Any feedback on the point brought up? |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hi mag,
may sound pretty simple but I was thinking of the very first word...
HEAR, O Israel. listen, pay attention, understand....
Deu 12:28 Observe and hear all these words which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever, when thou doest [that which is] good and right in the sight of the LORD thy God.
If we don't hear from the beginning we miss the whole thing... 
God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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mag_dala55
Tadpole
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: Identification before loving? |
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“Hear, O Israel!”
Consider the following:
** It was to “Israel” or Jews that God entrusted His words, the Sacred Scriptures.
** It is to Christianity that God entrusts His words, the Holy Bible.
God is calling “Israel” to “listen and hear His voice,” THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD.
Does not the “call” refer to the IDENTITY of “THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD?” Let us take note of the following:
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him…
God is calling Christianity to “listen and hear His voice,” THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD.
Let us take note of the following:
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
From the analogy, are we (the Christians) being called or to take notice that we have to clearly IDENTIFY Jesus so that we will also be able to IDENTIFY the Father?
As it is, Christians or people who profess to believe Jesus Christ as Savior have diversity of their recognition of Him:
*** Some say, “Jesus is only a man and not God”
*** Others say, a derivative, “Jesus is only a mighty God for there is a Supreme or Almighty God”
*** Still others say, “Jesus Christ is the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit”
*** Many say, “Jesus is both God and man, and He is the second person of the Trinity”
Again, let us take note that after this call, “Hear, O Israel, The Lord our God is one Lord” Jesus followed it with “LOVE OF GOD.”
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Does not our Lord Jesus want us FIRST TO KNOW GOD before loving Him? |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hi mag,
you wrote:
| Quote: | | Does not our Lord Jesus want us FIRST TO KNOW GOD before loving Him? |
1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cr 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1072
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Identification before loving? |
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| mag_dala55 wrote: |
...
...
Does not our Lord Jesus want us FIRST TO KNOW GOD before loving Him? |
Sure. Before he came the Jews loved God. They lost their way by turning their worship more into a series of rituals rather than knowing and understanding Who they were worshipping. Among other things Jesus wanted to make their worship of God from the heart rather than from following rituals.
Getting back. I reminded of a point Jesus made to Pilate.
NIV John 18:37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." |
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mag_dala55
Tadpole
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: The FUNDAMENTAL for LOVE |
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To KNOW must come FIRST before LOVING.
Identification or the IDENTITY of the SUBJECT for LOVE is a PREREQUISITE. Thus, we hear our Lord Jesus telling the Jews under the leadership of the Scribes and Pharisees:
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 [b]Yet ye have not known him...[/b]
Seeing and talking to JESUS was not enough for the religious leaders to IDENTIFY Him. Otherwise, they should not have paid Judas Iscariot 30 pcs. of silver just to IDENTIFY Him.
Today, has this truth passed away?
How many people profess to KNOW Jesus and yet we hear them say:
"The infinite Father God is incapable of clear IDENTIFICATION with the finite mind of man."
They say:
"Just believe and have faith in Him," forgetting that FAITH is a GIFT of God.
How can we receive this GIFT if we DO NOT even know Him?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: |
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RND
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 725
Location: Victorville, California, USA Corporate
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: Re: The FUNDAMENTAL for LOVE |
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| mag_dala55 wrote: | To KNOW must come FIRST before LOVING.
Identification or the IDENTITY of the SUBJECT for LOVE is a PREREQUISITE. Thus, we hear our Lord Jesus telling the Jews under the leadership of the Scribes and Pharisees:
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 [b]Yet ye have not known him...[/b]
Seeing and talking to JESUS was not enough for the religious leaders to IDENTIFY Him. Otherwise, they should not have paid Judas Iscariot 30 pcs. of silver just to IDENTIFY Him.
Today, has this truth passed away?
How many people profess to KNOW Jesus and yet we hear them say:
"The infinite Father God is incapable of clear IDENTIFICATION with the finite mind of man."
They say:
"Just believe and have faith in Him," forgetting that FAITH is a GIFT of God.
How can we receive this GIFT if we DO NOT even know Him?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: |
John 8:19
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Good points MD55.
I think knowing even goes much deeper than that which eventually leads to learning to love the Father and the Son. For example, many in Christianity will tell you that you must repent of all your sins before you can come to the throne of Christ.
I disagree with this idea. I believe anyone, in whatever state they may happen to be in, can begin to seek a relationship with the Lord without the need to repent.
From one of my favorite authors:
"How shall a man be just with God? How shall the sinner be made righteous? It is only through Christ that we can be brought into harmony with God, with holiness; but how are we to come to Christ? Many are asking the same question as did the multitude on the Day of Pentecost, when, convicted of sin, they cried out, "What shall we do?" The first word of Peter's answer was, "Repent." Acts 2:37, 38. At another time, shortly after, he said, "Repent, . . . and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out." Acts 3:19.
Repentance includes sorrow for sin and a turning away from it. We shall not renounce sin unless we see its sinfulness; until we turn away from it in heart, there will be no real change in the life.
There are many who fail to understand the true nature of repentance. Multitudes sorrow that they have sinned and even make an outward reformation because they fear that their wrongdoing will bring suffering upon themselves. But this is not repentance in the Bible sense. They lament the suffering rather than the sin."
And continuing:
"Just here is a point on which many may err, and hence they fail of receiving the help that Christ desires to give them. They think that they cannot come to Christ unless they first repent, and that repentance prepares for the forgiveness of their sins. It is true that repentance does precede the forgiveness of sins; for it is only the broken and contrite heart that will feel the need of a Saviour. But must the sinner wait till he has repented before he can come to Jesus? Is repentance to be made an obstacle between the sinner and the Saviour?
The Bible does not teach that the sinner must repent before he can heed the invitation of Christ, "Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28. It is the virtue that goes forth from Christ, that leads to genuine repentance. Peter made the matter clear in his statement to the Israelites when he said, "Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Acts 5:31. We can no more repent without the Spirit of Christ to awaken the conscience than we can be pardoned without Christ.
Christ is the source of every right impulse. He is the only one that can implant in the heart enmity against sin. Every desire for truth and purity, every conviction of our own sinfulness, is an evidence that His Spirit is moving upon our hearts.
Jesus has said, "I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me." John 12:32. Christ must be revealed to the sinner as the Saviour dying for the sins of the world; and as we behold the Lamb of God upon the cross of Calvary, the mystery of redemption begins to unfold to our minds and the goodness of God leads us to repentance. In dying for sinners, Christ manifested a love that is incomprehensible; and as the sinner beholds this love, it softens the heart, impresses the mind, and inspires contrition in the soul.
It is true that men sometimes become ashamed of their sinful ways, and give up some of their evil habits, before they are conscious that they are being drawn to Christ. But whenever they make an effort to reform, from a sincere desire to do right, it is the power of Christ that is drawing them. An influence of which they are unconscious works upon the soul, and the conscience is quickened, and the outward life is amended. And as Christ draws them to look upon His cross, to behold Him whom their sins have pierced, the commandment comes home to the conscience. The wickedness of their life, the deep-seated sin of the soul, is revealed to them. They begin to comprehend something of the righteousness of Christ, and exclaim, "What is sin, that it should require such a sacrifice for the redemption of its victim? Was all this love, all this suffering, all this humiliation, demanded, that we might not perish, but have everlasting life?"
The above quotes are from the book Steps to Christ by E.G. White
_________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860
www.heavenlysanctuary.com |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1965
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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mag_dala55,
Hi,
I agree it is important to KNOW God and that includes identifying Him. In fact, at John 17:3 Jesus said in prayer to his Father it means everlasting life taking in such knowledge.
At Mark 12 Jesus was quoting from the Hebrew scriptures in using his Father's name.
Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, 30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’
So Jesus was pointing to Jehovah as God alone. Jesus was called, in Rev, "the Faithful Witness" because he faithfully directed attention to his Father Jehovah as the only true God.
Take care.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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RND
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 725
Location: Victorville, California, USA Corporate
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
_________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860
www.heavenlysanctuary.com |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1965
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: |
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RND,
Hi,
At Mark 12:29 Jesus was quoting from Deut 6:4.
Deut 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force.
God's name was used there and "the Faithful Witness" Jesus no doubt quoted it accurately.
Later.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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mag_dala55
Tadpole
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: To whom is "The first of all the commandments"dire |
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When our Lord Jesus told this humble Scribe (Mark 12:28-29), “Hear, O Israel,” regarding the “first of all the commandments,” was this directed to:
1. “Israel” or Jacob personally, or
2. To the “seeds” Jacob, or
3. To the religion of Christianity? |
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RND
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 725
Location: Victorville, California, USA Corporate
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: To whom is "The first of all the commandments" |
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| mag_dala55 wrote: | When our Lord Jesus told this humble Scribe (Mark 12:28-29), “Hear, O Israel,” regarding the “first of all the commandments,” was this directed to:
1. “Israel” or Jacob personally, or
2. To the “seeds” Jacob, or
3. To the religion of Christianity? |
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
#3.
_________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860
www.heavenlysanctuary.com |
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mag_dala55
Tadpole
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: To whom is "The first of all the commandments" |
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| RND wrote: | | mag_dala55 wrote: | When our Lord Jesus told this humble Scribe (Mark 12:28-29), “Hear, O Israel,” regarding the “first of all the commandments,” was this directed to:
1. “Israel” or Jacob personally, or
2. To the “seeds” Jacob, or
3. To the religion of Christianity? |
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
#3. |
RND, glad to hear that. Right, this is directed to ALL who profess to belong to Christ.
The question is, are those professing to belong to Christ really listen to what our Lord said is, "The first of all the commandments?"
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Many of those professing to belong to Christ think that it is enough that they believe in One True God. But here is the rebuke:
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe... |
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RND
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 725
Location: Victorville, California, USA Corporate
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: Re: To whom is "The first of all the commandments" |
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| mag_dala55 wrote: | | RND wrote: | | mag_dala55 wrote: | When our Lord Jesus told this humble Scribe (Mark 12:28-29), “Hear, O Israel,” regarding the “first of all the commandments,” was this directed to:
1. “Israel” or Jacob personally, or
2. To the “seeds” Jacob, or
3. To the religion of Christianity? |
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
#3. |
RND, glad to hear that. Right, this is directed to ALL who profess to belong to Christ.
The question is, are those professing to belong to Christ really listen to what our Lord said is, "The first of all the commandments?"
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Many of those professing to belong to Christ think that it is enough that they believe in One True God. But here is the rebuke:
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe... |
Indeed! And these very Christians do just as the devils do....they tremble! Their God is a boogeyman, set to pounce and light on fire any one who steps outta line!
I love to hear all these Christians and their proselytizing about the "modern state of Israel" and about all these end time "prophecies" must still come for this secular-humanist state when they unfortunately don't realize that the Jewish house was left desolate and given over to whosoever would believe, whether Jew or Gentile.
I brought this up on a live "call-in" Christian talk radio program and actually had someone call up and say I was "demon processed" because I quoted scripture saying we are all one under Christ! Amazing!
_________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860
www.heavenlysanctuary.com |
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sandra3102
Kitten
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: A "dialogue with God" |
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Finally, I stumbled on the following article that is designed as a “dialogue between the chosen and God” regarding His identity! Worth taking a look.
GOD IDENTIFYING HIMSELF!
Shall we not listen to Him?
• While many people accept the basic principle of “To KNOW comes before LOVE,”
• When applied to LOVE of God, would this not cause a turn off?
http://www.purechristianity.org/index.php/news/God_Identifying_Himself!
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I love to talk about the word of God since I sincerely believe He is being represented thereto. |
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