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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Those 3 billion base pairs make up 6 feet of DNA and are organized into 46 chromosomes or 23 pairs of chromosomes. You receive 23 chromosomes from each of your parents. Each set of 23 chromosomes contains a complete set (with one exception noted below) of instructions (genes) for how to assemble a human. Thus you get a pair of each of your genes. You characteristics depend on the interaction of those pairs of genes.
Twenty-two of the pairs of chromosomes are similar in males and females. These are called autosomes. The 23rd pair is different. A female has two X chromosomes and a male has an X and a Y chromosome. Because they are different in males and females, we call the X and Y, sex chromosomes.
The Y chromosome triggers the development of male characteristics. It has virtually no information beyond what is required to set maleness in motion. Other than that, the Y chromosome is a blank.
The X chromosome has almost nothing to do with femaleness. Instead, it has genes with information for all sorts of characteristics need by both males and females. For example, a gene that is important in the functioning of the brain, the gene that causes fragile X syndrome, is located on the X chromosome.
It might seem that since females have two X chromosomes, they would make too much of the proteins coded for on those chromosomes or males might not make enough. Females compensate for this difference by turning off one of their X chromosomes in each of their cells by a process called methylation. This methylation plays a role in determining the impact of fragile X on females. Fragile X syndrome itself involves methylation that turns off the FMR1 gene.
When a male produces sperm, he divides up his pairs of chromosomes so that each sperm receives one each of the 22 autosomes. They also receive either an X chromosome, creating a daughter, or a Y chromosome, creating a son.
When a female produces eggs, she divides up her pairs of chromosomes also. All her eggs get an X chromosome.
Each egg and sperm will get a number 1 chromosome, a number 2 chromosome, etc. However, the process of selecting which number 1 chromosome is used is random. Thus, each egg or sperm you produce has a different combination of the chromosomes you received from your mother and father.
http://www.fragilex.org/html/dna.htm
this is neat stuff isn't it?
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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RND
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 725
Location: Victorville, California, USA Corporate
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | You're reading it wrong; you said that eggs have two of these chromosomes (XX) and sperm have two of these chromosomes also (XY), which is FALSE. Eggs have one X each (that's it) and sperm have either one X OR one Y. |
No I'm not.
| Quote: | | Your link is not talking about eggs and sperm; it's talking about males and females. |
All eggs from a woman contain XX chromosomes. All sperm from a male contain either XX chromosomes or XY chromosomes. These are referred to separately as X for the woman, or X or Y for the male because the egg an sperm each carry another X chromosome.
"XX sperm are stronger than XY sperm but both will perish very quickly if allowed to dry out."
Is there a difference in how long XY-chromosome sperm for boys and XX sperm for girls live?
"The fact that you have pairs of chromosomes means that you have pairs of genes for every trait (except for those traits found only on the X chromosome). So which instruction in each pair gets followed? It depends on whether the genes in the pair are dominant or recessive. In any pair, if one gene is dominant over the other, its instructions are followed. A recessive gene's instructions come into play only if neither gene in its pair is dominant."
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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860
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RND
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 725
Location: Victorville, California, USA Corporate
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: |
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X inactivation is lost in only one type of cells, the female germ cells, where both X chromosomes are functional for transmission to the next generation. Thus, X inactivation involves special mechanisms of initiation, maintenance, and reactivation. Much work still needs to be done to fully understand the fascinating roles of the X chromosome and its regulation.
Cytogenetic analysis of spermatozoa from males aged between 47 and 71 years
_________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860
www.heavenlysanctuary.com |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| RND wrote: | | Ana wrote: | | You're reading it wrong; you said that eggs have two of these chromosomes (XX) and sperm have two of these chromosomes also (XY), which is FALSE. Eggs have one X each (that's it) and sperm have either one X OR one Y. |
No I'm not. |
Your link doesn't mention XY sperm or XX sperm in the whole article. In fact, it only mentions sperm twice, in reference to the unusual platypus sperm. So yes, you are reading wrong.
| RND wrote: |
| Quote: | | Your link is not talking about eggs and sperm; it's talking about males and females. |
All eggs from a woman contain XX chromosomes. All sperm from a male contain either XX chromosomes or XY chromosomes. These are referred to separately as X for the woman, or X or Y for the male because the egg an sperm each carry another X chromosome. |
I don't know where you got that from, but it's false. Humans have 46 chromosomes, and sperms and eggs each have 23 chromosomes. The 23rd chromosome in each egg is an X and in sperm is either an X or a Y.
| RND wrote: |
"XX sperm are stronger than XY sperm but both will perish very quickly if allowed to dry out."
Is there a difference in how long XY-chromosome sperm for boys and XX sperm for girls live?
"The fact that you have pairs of chromosomes means that you have pairs of genes for every trait (except for those traits found only on the X chromosome). So which instruction in each pair gets followed? It depends on whether the genes in the pair are dominant or recessive. In any pair, if one gene is dominant over the other, its instructions are followed. A recessive gene's instructions come into play only if neither gene in its pair is dominant." |
That link is pretty awful. It says a lot of garbage gimmicks about manipulations to make your baby have a specific gender (vinegar? baking soda? hello?). Do you believe that stuff too?
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| RND wrote: |
"This is wrong."
No, not according to Wikipedia it isn't. |
You're misinterpreting what Wikipedia says.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| RND wrote: |
All eggs from a woman contain XX chromosomes.
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This is false. Eggs contain only one X chromosome.
| RND wrote: |
All sperm from a male contain either XX chromosomes or XY chromosomes.
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This is false. Sperms contain either one X or one Y chromosome, not both.
I really don't know why we're debating this. This is high school biology.
I promise you that you're making a mistake in your reasoning.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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I'm having trouble understanding this then:
Each egg and sperm will get a number 1 chromosome, a number 2 chromosome, etc. However, the process of selecting which number 1 chromosome is used is random. Thus, each egg or sperm you produce has a different combination of the chromosomes you received from your mother and father.
If an egg or a sperm only has 1 of something, then how can it be refered to as a combination of something(s)?
P wrote:
| Quote: | | I really don't know why we're debating this. This is high school biology. |
I never got to high school..  
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: |
If an egg or a sperm only has 1 of something, then how can it be refered to as a combination of something(s)?
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I see exactly where the problem is, and don't feel bad, your confusion is perfectly understandable.
Hopefully this will clear it up: You have 46 chromosomes in your genome. Exactly half of your chromosomes came from your mother, and exactly half came from your father. You have two copies of chromosome # 1; one came from your mother, and one came from your father. Let us call these chromosomes 1M and 1F. The same goes for all the other chromosomes; ie. you have 2M and 2F, 3M and 3F, all the way up to 23M and 23F. In your case, your 23M is an X chromosome and your 23F is also an X chromosome. In my case, my 23M is a Y chromosome (which could only have come from my father), and my 23F is an X chromosome.
Here is why your eggs are considered to be a 'combination' of chromosomes:
Each of the eggs in your ovaries are similar to each other, but they are also different. They are similar in that each one contains exactly one copy of each of the 23 chromosomes. But they are different because the actual combination of chromosomes varies among your different eggs.
For example, one of your eggs might contain the chromosomes 1M, 2M, 3F, 4M, 5F, 6F, ...., 23M. A different egg might contain 1F, 2M, 3M, 4F, 5F, 6M, ..., 23F, and so on.
These different chromosomes have different DNA, and since each egg has a different combination of the chromosomes that your parents gave you, it means that each of your children will be different (provided that you don't have identical twins).
The same goes for sperm, only some sperms have a 23M (ie. a Y chromosome) and some have a 23F (ie. an X chromosome).
Does this explain why eggs and sperms are considered to be 'combinations' of chromosomes?
| lone-traveler wrote: |
| Quote: | | I really don't know why we're debating this. This is high school biology. |
I never got to high school.. |
This comment of mine wasn't aimed at you, Lone. I think it's GREAT that you're interested in this stuff and that you're giving yourself a science education! What you're doing is worth more than what any teacher can give you because you're doing it YOURSELF. When you learn something yourself because you're interested, then you learn it forever.
I've been in school basically all my life and I've taken classes at the highest graduate level possible. I can tell you right now that nothing beats when you figure out something by yourself; I really mean that.
My comment was aimed at RND for saying things which are not only objectively false, but are also easy to check out.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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RND, this web page is garbage. This is why the internet sucks for getting information. It is not peer-reviewed, and there are plenty of web pages out there that either contain falsehoods and / or are written very poorly.
The internet is hit and miss for information. You've got to be careful what you believe online.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: |
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ummm....
looks like funky algebra to me..LOLOL...
You say that each egg and each sperm have 23 chromosones each. ok?
But that the 23rd chromosone is the one that varies in the sperm...ok?
So how do we get from 23 chromosones per egg or sperm down to one each only?
In your conversation with RND...which I'm sticking my nose in because I'm trying to understand how this is working here..ok?
this is what is written:
RND wrote:
All eggs from a woman contain XX chromosomes.
P123 wrote:
This is false. Eggs contain only one X chromosome.
and,
RND wrote:
All sperm from a male contain either XX chromosomes or XY chromosomes.
P123 wrote:
This is false. Sperms contain either one X or one Y chromosome, not both.
now you just got through explaining to me that each egg and each sperm have 23 chromosones each. Not necessarily in the same order but 23 nevertheless. Only male sperm have a Y or X as the 23rd chromosone but eggs are all X's.
and in the link I wrote above it says:
Twenty-two of the pairs of chromosomes are similar in males and females. These are called autosomes. The 23rd pair is different. A female has two X chromosomes and a male has an X and a Y chromosome. Because they are different in males and females, we call the X and Y, sex chromosomes.
Why is what RND wrote above and what this says here wrong in their examples?
I think the confusion is in the "pairs". We start out with 46 pairs..23 pairs from mom, 23 pairs from dad.
22 pairs are similar in both male and female. A female has a X/X pair, and a male has a X/Y pair of chromosones her egg, his sperm.
yes/no? Am I totally confusing you yet?...LOLOL...
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: |
and in the link I wrote above it says:
Twenty-two of the pairs of chromosomes are similar in males and females. These are called autosomes. The 23rd pair is different. A female has two X chromosomes and a male has an X and a Y chromosome. Because they are different in males and females, we call the X and Y, sex chromosomes.
Why is what RND wrote above and what this says here wrong in their examples?
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Your quote is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. But what RND said definitely is false.
You have 23 pairs of chromosomes. That means that you have 23 X 2 = 46 chromosomes in your genome. Each sperm has 23 chromosomes and each egg has 23 chromosomes. A sperm does NOT have 23 PAIRS of chromosomes. It only has 23 single chromosomes. The same goes for eggs.
When the 23 chromosomes in the sperm and the 23 in the egg come together, they create a proper human cell with 46 chromosomes.
| lone-traveler wrote: |
I think the confusion is in the "pairs".
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Yes.
| lone-traveler wrote: |
We start out with 46 pairs..23 pairs from mom, 23 pairs from dad.
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No; you get 23 chromosomes from your mother via her egg, and 23 chromosomes from your father via his sperm. You don't get 23 PAIRS from your mother. You only get 23 single chromosomes. Same with your father.
| lone-traveler wrote: |
22 pairs are similar in both male and female. A female has a X/X pair, and a male has a X/Y pair of chromosones her egg, his sperm.
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No. Eggs only contain one copy of chromosome number 23. ie. Eggs contain only one X. Similarly, spermies also contain only one copy of chromosome number 23, but in this case it can either be a single X or a single Y.
| lone-traveler wrote: |
yes/no? Am I totally confusing you yet?...LOLOL...
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Am I confusing you yet? 
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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no, I think I found it...
It's the genes that are pairs... 
I'm going to go slow here..
Those 3 billion base pairs make up 6 feet of DNA and are organized into 46 chromosomes or 23 pairs of chromosomes. You receive 23 chromosomes from each of your parents. Each set of 23 chromosomes contains a complete set (with one exception noted below) of instructions (genes) for how to assemble a human. Thus you get a pair of each of your genes. You characteristics depend on the interaction of those pairs of genes.
multiplication was never my best subject.. 
how to assemble a human.....that sounds aweful..LOL..
there are 46 chromosones in one human. we recieve 23 from mom, 23 from dad. These combine making 46 chromosones or 23 pairs. Now each set of 23 also has a set of genes.
It's the next line thats confusing..
thus you get a pair of your genes for each set of chromosones. so, we have 46 chromosones and 46 genes. And our characteristics are determined by the pairs of genes...
Holy toledo...
I am made up of 46 chromosones and my husband is made up of 46 chromosones.
23 of my chromosones are in my egg...
but there still pairs aren't they?
46 chromosomes or 23 pairs of chromosomes. You receive 23 chromosomes from each of your parents.
no, the egg only recieves half of the 23 pairs so it's 23 singles...and the sperm recieves half of the 23 pairs so it's 23 singles. and when they combine they make 23 pairs or 46 chromosones.
so an egg is only 1 X and a sperm is either 1 X or 1 Y.
when it gets down to the 23rd one that is.
And then the combo can either be an XX or an XY but never a YY...
Ok I think I got it figured out...
How to assemble a human...who'd ever thunk it was so simple...
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: |
thus you get a pair of your genes for each set of chromosones. so, we have 46 chromosones and 46 genes. And our characteristics are determined by the pairs of genes...
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You were good up to this point. You have WAY more than 46 genes. Genes are simply the coding regions on your chromosomes. You have THOUSANDS of genes. Some chromosomes have way more genes on them than others.
| lone-traveler wrote: |
I am made up of 46 chromosones and my husband is made up of 46 chromosones.
23 of my chromosones are in my egg...
but there still pairs aren't they?
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Not in your eggs. Your eggs and his sperm don't have pairs of chromosomes in them. They have single chromosomes.
| lone-traveler wrote: |
46 chromosomes or 23 pairs of chromosomes. You receive 23 chromosomes from each of your parents.
no, the egg only recieves half of the 23 pairs so it's 23 singles...and the sperm recieves half of the 23 pairs so it's 23 singles. and when they combine they make 23 pairs or 46 chromosones.
so an egg is only 1 X and a sperm is either 1 X or 1 Y.
when it gets down to the 23rd one that is.
And then the combo can either be an XX or an XY but never a YY...
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Yes, exactly. But you have two different types of eggs: you have some eggs which contain the X chromosome from your mother, and some eggs which contain the X chromosome from your father.
So there are two types of eggs just like there are two types of sperms.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm throwing in the towel...ding'....ding'...
LOL...
Thanks P, for your patience..
I don't know if I'm ready to go assemblin any humans anyhow. I'm going to leave that to the master builder..
hugs
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Can I try an analogy?
Suppose DNA is for coding outfits instead of people. Each person has 23 pairs of chromosomes. 1/2 of each pair of chromosomes came from their mom's egg and 1/2 came from their dad's sperm. So, for instance, you got a sock from your mom and a sock from your dad.
Now, each sock has characteristics, or genes. This is simplistic, but there might be a gene on the sock from your mom for stripes and a gene on the sock from your dad for polka dots, and a gene from your mom's for yellow socks and from your dad, blue socks. There are usually rules that determine which socks you're going to end up wearing. You could end up with yellow polka dot socks, or blue polka dot socks, or sometimes a blend instead of one or the other, so maybe green polka dot socks (assuming polka dots are dominant and stripes are recessive).
Now, onto your eggs. Still looking at the 'sock' chromosome, each of your eggs will have chromosomes for one sock (the accompanying sperm will have one sock too, so a new pair would be formed in the, erm, new outfit). Each egg will have some combo of one sock, one cufflink, one earring, et cetera (the sperm will have another). The eggs will feature a variety of combos from the pairs that you have. Some eggs will say 'striped' in the sock chromosome and some will say 'polka dots'. Some will say 'yellow' and some will say 'blue'.
I hope that analogy works...
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
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