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apocatastasis
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 1827
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 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| sofyst wrote: | | You are showing yourself incapable of decent conversation and one given to misrepresentation and blatant twisting of other's words. |
Are you just realizing this about RND?
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sofyst
Tiger
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 830
Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| apocatastasis wrote: | | sofyst wrote: | | You are showing yourself incapable of decent conversation and one given to misrepresentation and blatant twisting of other's words. |
Are you just realizing this about RND? |
Yes, actually I am. I had never really paid attention to much of what he said. He caught my attention when he butted in here and began to confuse the issue. I did desire initially to engage him in conversation, but found out that he was incapable of doing so.
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simul justus et peccator
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Pete
Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 1025
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| sofyst wrote: | | apocatastasis wrote: | | sofyst wrote: | | You are showing yourself incapable of decent conversation and one given to misrepresentation and blatant twisting of other's words. |
Are you just realizing this about RND? |
Yes, actually I am. I had never really paid attention to much of what he said. He caught my attention when he butted in here and began to confuse the issue. I did desire initially to engage him in conversation, but found out that he was incapable of doing so. |
It seems that you are incapable of posting without including snide personal comments and innuendo about other posters.
At least you have admitted to not paying attention to what others say. It would help if you did. |
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sofyst
Tiger
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 830
Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Pete, you still haven't answered my question regarding that passage of Scripture. Are you going to continue to avoid answering it? If you would just explain the passage, or at least say outrightly that you are not going to because of your inability to do so, then I will quit asking...
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simul justus et peccator
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Pete
Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 1025
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| sofyst wrote: | | Pete, you still haven't answered my question regarding that passage of Scripture. Are you going to continue to avoid answering it? If you would just explain the passage, or at least say outrightly that you are not going to because of your inability to do so, then I will quit asking... |
The scriptures that I quoted are self-explanitory. In fact, I enlarged on them in two previous posts. Apparently you "never really paid attention," and I'm not going to track them down for you, except to say that the verses are 1 John 2:22-24, and 2 John 9-11.
As a matter of fact, try reading all the opening salutations of Paul's epistles. He consistently acknowledges the Father and Son ONLY, no coequal Trinity, or third person Holy Ghost. The Trinity concept is totally unbiblical.
When (and if) you respond, don't do it while you are having a "nicotine fit." |
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sofyst
Tiger
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 830
Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Pete, once again, I'm not seeing the blatant meaning of the Scriptures. Do help me out, please. Simply explain them. If they are so 'self-explanatory', it shouldn't take you long to write up some little summation of them. Please do so.
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simul justus et peccator
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Rocket
House Cat
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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I guess congradulations are in order for those intelligent beings who have learned greek. Fortunately or unfortunately as the case may be, the greek version of the Bible is a copy of the original, the original being written in Aramaic. I know all the arguments on this so don't even bother, but after the arguments just think for one tiny minute. Why would men who were Jews in Israel write books written in Greek?
Go to http://www.aramaicpesh**ta.com/friendsearch/aramaic-bible.html. Fill in the spaces stared with 'it' and you can see it for yourself.. |
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sofyst
Tiger
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 830
Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Um...because they were in a Greek dominated world writing to Greek speaking people?! Just a thought...
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Rocket wrote: | I guess congradulations are in order for those intelligent beings who have learned greek. Fortunately or unfortunately as the case may be, the greek version of the Bible is a copy of the original, the original being written in Aramaic. I know all the arguments on this so don't even bother, but after the arguments just think for one tiny minute. Why would men who were Jews in Israel write books written in Greek?
Go to http://www.aramaicpesh**ta.com/friendsearch/aramaic-bible.html. Fill in the spaces stared with 'it' and you can see it for yourself.. |
If you 'know all the arguments' then you know that the original texts were not written in Aramaic, in fact you must know that very few correspondences were written in Aramaic save for things like grocery lists, unofficial notes and the like.
Greek was the official written language of the time, fully 95% of all correspondence and all official documents were written in Greek. Certainly few if any of the apostles would have written letters to churches in anything but Greek, possibly some in Hebrew (very unlikely, but possible).
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I tried to follow that link Rocket and I had trouble with it. But in my search I came across this site and I find it very interesting.
Thanks for passing that along.. 
CHECK LINK
God Bless
Lone
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | Ryck, you know as well as I do that the conversation was concerning the request for a scriptural passage which explicitly detailed the 'trinity' and that sofyst stated that there is no such passage, but that the concept of the trinity was addressed throughout the whole of scripture.
He then went on in further discussion to refer back to that conversation which is where he stated:
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it was brought up that the Trinitarian doctrine was not explicitly spoken of or about within the Scriptures, |
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See? I knew that if I challenged either of you to prove where I misrepresented your position and to show where your position is supported in the Bible, you'd change your tune and vector the argument back to your square-one assertions, yet again.
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Ryck, can you honestly deny that what I have stated here is the truth? |
So far you haven't honestly proved that what you stated regarding Trinity is truth.
I've said this before. And this is the truth: The proofs for a single person Deity has always been there for the Jews. Just check De 6:4 in any OT. And Jesus continued that in Mark 12:29 which you can check in any NT.
What can't be said is that the Trinity is defined, taught, preached, and argued about in either the OT or NT. Both testaments are curiously silent regarding Trinity teaching - a supposed bedrock teaching for Trinitarians as yourself.
Therefore, it appears to the objective observer that Trinity asserters need to provide the Trinity proofs of which they are remarkably in zero supply in the Scriptures! Which leads one to wonder what non-Biblical sources Trinitarians must be using to support their dogma. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: | I've gotten worse...
but not as bad as these guys:
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness.
Luk 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over [them] are not aware [of them].
Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
now that's agressive and insulting...and down right rude...
don't ya think?  |
But that's just scratching the surface of what those religious leaders were like on the inside.
As one could guess, Jesus had little tolerance for hypocrites. Jesus drilled hypocrites and hypocracy every time he encountered them. |
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Rocket
House Cat
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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What language did Jesus really speak during his ministry?
It's very important to know that the Hebrew and Greek letters that were found, are only translations that were written 150 to 300 years after Jesus. It is important to know that Jesus did not speak Greek. So therefore, the Greek letters are nothing but a translation (which could have many faults in it) from Aramaic to Greek. Same applies to Hebrew. When you translate a doctrine that was written hundreds of years after the fact into another language, then you can't really claim that your sources are 100% correct. As a matter of a fact, claiming 50% would be even too much.
Aramaic Language, Semitic language closely related to Hebrew. Originally the language of the Aramaeans (see Aram), it was used, in many dialectical forms, in Mesopotamia and Syria before 1000BC and later became the lingua franca of the Middle East (see Assyro-Babylonian Language). Aramaic survived the fall of Nineveh (612BC) and Babylon (539BC) and remained the official language of the Persian Empire (539-337BC). Ancient inscriptions in Aramaic have been found over a vast area extending from Egypt to China.
Before the Christian era, Aramaic had become the language of the Jews in Palestine. Jesus preached in Aramaic, and parts of the Old Testament and much of the rabbinical literature were written in that language. Christian Aramaic, usually called Syriac, also developed an extensive literature, especially from the 4th to 7th centuries.
Aramaic began to decline in the 7th century AD. Aramaic survives today in Eastern and Western dialects, mostly as the language of Christians living in a few scattered communities in Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran.
(From Encarta Encyclopedia ) |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, 
John 19:20 Therefore many of the Jews read this title, because the place where Jesus was impaled was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, in Greek.
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Acts 6:1 Now in these days, when the disciples were increasing, a murmuring arose on the part of the Greek-speaking Jews against the Hebrew-speaking Jews,
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Acts 9:29 and he was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews.
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Acts 21:37 And as he was about to be led into the soldiers’ quarters, Paul said to the military commander: “Am I allowed to say something to you?” He said: “Can you speak Greek?
40 After he gave permission, Paul, standing on the stairs, motioned with his hand to the people. When a great silence fell, he addressed them in the Hebrew language, saying:
I do believe Aramaic was spoken at that time, however Greek was spoken as well. Greek was a common language at that time and many spoke it. The Bible was originally written Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Jesus probably spoke multiple languages. Even Paul spoke both Hebrew and Greek.
Later.
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Agape,
TBax |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | Hi,
John 19:20 Therefore many of the Jews read this title, because the place where Jesus was impaled was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, in Greek.
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Acts 6:1 Now in these days, when the disciples were increasing, a murmuring arose on the part of the Greek-speaking Jews against the Hebrew-speaking Jews,
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Acts 9:29 and he was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews.
*
Acts 21:37 And as he was about to be led into the soldiers’ quarters, Paul said to the military commander: “Am I allowed to say something to you?” He said: “Can you speak Greek?
40 After he gave permission, Paul, standing on the stairs, motioned with his hand to the people. When a great silence fell, he addressed them in the Hebrew language, saying:
I do believe Aramaic was spoken at that time, however Greek was spoken as well. Greek was a common language at that time and many spoke it. The Bible was originally written Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Jesus probably spoke multiple languages. Even Paul spoke both Hebrew and Greek.
Later. |
Agreed.
And I wouldn't be at all surprised if a little bit of Latin was known as well. If not, then Greek was commonly understood since it was the international language back then. |
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