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Pete
Lion King
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 1019
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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 Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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In terms of what the Koran has to say, I’ve read a few interesting things in my copy, although I haven’t spent a lot of time in it. Trinitarians and Jews are mentioned quite often, Christians as “Infidels”, and Jews as Jews, of course. Actually, Infidels, in the broad sense, would include most westerners. One of the problems with the Koran, at least my copy, is that Mohammed apparently never heard of the paragraph. It just runs on endlessly, and can’t be nailed down to chapter and verse.
The indication that the traditional, historic, Trinitarian churches, are singled out,( Rome, at the time, was the only one) is the use in the Koran of the term: “Those that believe in three gods.” The term infidel would be more all-inclusive of non-Muslims. Some passages follow:
"Believe therefore in God, and his apostles, and say not, There are three gods; forbear this; it will be better for you. Far be it from him that he should have a son;"
"Thou shalt surely find the most violent of all men in enmity against the true believers, to be the Jews and the idolaters" (Trinitarians).
"They are certainly infidels, who say God is the third of three; for there is no God beside the one God; and if they refrain not from what they say, a painful torment shall surely be inflicted on such of them that are unbelievers."
"Fight therefore for the religion of God, and oblige not any to what is difficult, except thyself: however, excite the faithful to war, perhaps God will restrain the courage of the unbelievers:"
Here’s a verse that set me wondering: "Wheresoever you be, death will overtake you, although ye be in lofty towers." Does this remind you of something? |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: |
Here’s a verse that set me wondering: "Wheresoever you be, death will overtake you, although ye be in lofty towers." Does this remind you of something? |
Um, the Lord of the Rings movies? 
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1512
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Pete wrote: |
Here’s a verse that set me wondering: "Wheresoever you be, death will overtake you, although ye be in lofty towers." Does this remind you of something? |
Um, the Lord of the Rings movies? |
tee hee
Although, the more serious point is that is exactly what their spiritual leaders do to motivate their hate crimes....they give brutality moral "justice" by finding an analogous story in the Koran...
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: | | In terms of what the Koran has to say, I’ve read a few interesting things in my copy, although I haven’t spent a lot of time in it. Trinitarians and Jews are mentioned quite often, Christians as “Infidels”, and Jews as Jews, of course. Actually, Infidels, in the broad sense, would include most westerners. |
Christians and Jews are referred to as Ahlul Kitaab (People of the Book). I would like to see the part where it refers to Christians as Infidels. What copy do you read?
| Quote: | | One of the problems with the Koran, at least my copy, is that Mohammed apparently never heard of the paragraph. It just runs on endlessly, and can’t be nailed down to chapter and verse. |
I am speechless...
| Quote: | The indication that the traditional, historic, Trinitarian churches, are singled out,( Rome, at the time, was the only one) is the use in the Koran of the term: “Those that believe in three gods.” The term infidel would be more all-inclusive of non-Muslims. Some passages follow:
"Believe therefore in God, and his apostles, and say not, There are three gods; forbear this; it will be better for you. Far be it from him that he should have a son;"
"Thou shalt surely find the most violent of all men in enmity against the true believers, to be the Jews and the idolaters" (Trinitarians).
"They are certainly infidels, who say God is the third of three; for there is no God beside the one God; and if they refrain not from what they say, a painful torment shall surely be inflicted on such of them that are unbelievers."
"Fight therefore for the religion of God, and oblige not any to what is difficult, except thyself: however, excite the faithful to war, perhaps God will restrain the courage of the unbelievers:" |
Point - reference your verses with their surahs and ayat numbers!!!
| Quote: | | Here’s a verse that set me wondering: "Wheresoever you be, death will overtake you, although ye be in lofty towers." Does this remind you of something? |
What? What does it remind you of Oh Knowledgable One...
It means no matter what high a position you take, in society, in politics, or anything, no matter if you are a king or a peasant, death will come to all of you. |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Ryck wrote: |
What I don't understand is what do Muslim female suicide bombers and murderers get out of this deal? Do they look forward to getting 72 virgins? Can someone kindly explain this one for me? |
Any woman who wants 72 male virgins must herself be a virgin... |
I was watching a piece on the TV last night about radical Islam. They had some woman 'expert' saying something to the effect that the purpose of the Muslim woman is to serve Allah by having children, and to serve her husband.
Beyond that... there is no purpose for her life. |
A Muslims purpose, male or female, is to serve Allah. Beyond that, there is no purpose to life. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Tiptronic wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | I was watching a piece on the TV last night about radical Islam. They had some woman 'expert' saying something to the effect that the purpose of the Muslim woman is to serve Allah by having children, and to serve her husband.
Beyond that... there is no purpose for her life. |
A Muslims purpose, male or female, is to serve Allah. Beyond that, there is no purpose to life. |
Yea... right... that is why any country that practices any form of Sharia makes women ride in the backseat of a car... I guess her service just needs to be done from afar... and in the presence of a male relative.
Please... Tip... save the simple euphuisms for folks who aren’t familiar with the traditions and practices of Islam... for someone who has never seen it's depraved treatment of half of its adherents up close and personal.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Yea... right... that is why any country that practices any form of Sharia makes women ride in the backseat of a car... I guess her service just needs to be done from afar... and in the presence of a male relative.
Please... Tip... save the simple euphuisms for folks who aren’t familiar with the traditions and practices of Islam... for someone who has never seen it's depraved treatment of half of its adherents up close and personal. |
Trinity has an EXTREMELY good point here. Sharia treats women TERRIBLY.
For that matter, all of Muslim culture treats women badly. They have to sit at the back of the mosque. In some places they can't drive cars. In most places they don't even have the right to wear what they choose.
There was even a case where many schoolgirls were not allowed to leave a burning school and died because the 'authorities' wouldn't let them leave since they weren't wearing their headscarves.
It's a completely backwards and primitive way of life, and it's completely un-enlightened.
I'd even like to add that Muslim countries don't let women vote, but so few of them practice democracy that it's rather a moot point!!!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | I'd even like to add that Muslim countries don't let women vote, but so few of them practice democracy that it's rather a moot point!!! |
Odd you missed the fact that Iraq is doing that verything right now P...  seems Bush did do something right in this case. If I'm not mistaken, this also occurred in Afghanistan too.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | I'd even like to add that Muslim countries don't let women vote, but so few of them practice democracy that it's rather a moot point!!! |
Odd you missed the fact that Iraq is doing that verything right now P... seems Bush did do something right in this case. If I'm not mistaken, this also occurred in Afghanistan too. |
...Everything except for the constant blood in the streets.  You can't have democracy without security.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | ...Everything except for the constant blood in the streets. You can't have democracy without security. |
You can't have security if only a minority of your citizens make and enforce the rules... give'em a chance.. they'll get there...
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | ...Everything except for the constant blood in the streets. You can't have democracy without security. |
You can't have security if only a minority of your citizens make and enforce the rules... give'em a chance.. they'll get there... |
I hope you're right.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | ...Everything except for the constant blood in the streets. You can't have democracy without security. |
You can't have security if only a minority of your citizens make and enforce the rules... give'em a chance.. they'll get there... |
I hope you're right. |
Me too...
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Bismarck
Tadpole
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | ...they are given by GOD and taken by the state... |
...only if We the People are a bunch of panzies. As it stands, the *Wonderful Person* capital of the world (San Francisco) is in this country, which speaks volumes as to the utter lack of testosterone in America today -- the same America which loses its wars against small 3rd world nations.
But, metaphorically speaking, no state would take squat from a nation of William Cuttings (from the movie Gangs of New York). |
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Bismarck
Tadpole
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | dim12trav wrote: | | When they get over the "exploding myth" of attaining heaven by killing people. No other religion that I'm aware of has this idea that killing others somehow qualifies them for heaven. |
Christianity came up with its own version of this during the Crusades. Pope Urban II stated:
| Quote: | | "I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it." |
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This is a most excellent point. Please consider what you have just said! This notion, that murder qualifies us for heaven, came about at the same time in both Christendom (Catholicism) and Islam (beset by Catholic marauders).
Once more! Catholics invent the notion of "murder => heaven"...
And then their crusades "infected" Islam with the same notion (as a retaliatory response).
Martin Luther of Germany warned the world that Rome is the anti-Christ. The RCC is the root source of the "murder => heaven" doctrine. The aweful sins of Rome still haunt the west, and the world, to this day. |
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Bismarck
Tadpole
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | One of the best ideas that Western Civilization has ever come up with was the idea of separating church and state. This was a truly fabulous idea, both for the church and the state; we don't want the church meddling in state afairs, and we don't want the state meddling in church affairs. BOTH of these things happen when there is no separation.
Islam desparately needs to start separating church and state. |
Atheism is still a religious ideology. Therefore, the state cannot enforce Atheism. If you and your town want to be Atheists, fine. If you try to pass national laws that prevent me and mine in Podunk, Nebraska (if you will) from expressig our Belief in YHWH-Elohim, you are hypocritically guilty of commiting the very crime you condemn.
Atheism is still a religion.
FYI, to all concerned. |
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