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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: Resolving to Lose |
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It appears our Democratically led house, with the Senate to follow, has endorsed losing. HERE
This is what happens now.
The troops and the funding will be cut... Bush can no longer support the number of troops in the field, and now must scale back this surge, regardless of whether it is working or not. Therefore, any chance of sucess of the demanded change of tactics is never given a chance...  These people know no frigging shame at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and/or
The surge works, and the democrats who have now endorsed losing, will never never ever admit any progress, even if it is obvious, because now they are on record for disapproving of the same thing that worked. So, now, it must not work due to political expedience and therefore will never admit progress, even if it was mailed to them, stuffed up their fourth point of contact… and set off. They are now are going to be forced to lie lie lie and lie about our troops successes.
and/or
It works and the democrats admit they were wrong, give up control of both houses, and admit Bush was right.
But... the one thing I do know just happened, is this vote is a slap in the face of those soldiers in the field... and no one... no one... can seem to justify doing that with a straight face. They house of representatives just told the troops, it doesn’t matter what they do from here on out… defeat is immanent, and any actions they engage in are exercises in futility.
Thanks for the moral boost guys!
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2653
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Awww Gee, now Iraq cant become our 51st state, too bad.
Actually the resolution will have no effect on Bush's surge/escalation none whatsoever so don't panic my little war mongers you'll still get you piece of flesh in the end. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | Actually the resolution will have no effect on Bush's surge/escalation none whatsoever so don't panic my little war mongers you'll still get you piece of flesh in the end. |
Dim... do you think this resolution backs those who voted for it into a corner? Politically? As... if the surge does work..what are they going do. If the very action they voted against truns out to work... what do they say then?
Also... what about the troops.... I watched the commander on the ground asking the Senate not to vote for this as it would hurt moral. I watched an interview last night with an Army Sergeant who said the very same thing...
What do they do Dim?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Also... what about the troops.... I watched the commander on the ground asking the Senate not to vote for this as it would hurt moral. I watched an interview last night with an Army Sergeant who said the very same thing...
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I wonder which station you watched those interviews on... Might it have been... FOX NEWS???
As for the Democrats trying to lose in Iraq, they only passed a non-binding resolution. It's just b.s. anyways. It's completely symbolic and has no teeth.
Besides, even if America ENTIRELY withdraws from Iraq right now, it's far from clear that that would be a mistake FOR AMERICA.
Obviously it would be TERRIBLE for the Iraqi people, since the entire country would immediately descend into civil war, but the war would engulf the whole Muslim world. All of the Sunni countries would be at war with all of the Shiite countries, and the whole time America could sit back and sell arms to the losing side to make sure the war goes on forever. None of Osama's men would be attacking American targets while they've got a jihad going against Iran.
The result of this war could be extremely good for America; Muslim countries destroying each other means that you don't have to do the dirty work yourselves!
On top of that, the price of oil would spike, which means people would use less, and it would spur research into alternative energies and modes of transportation.
A war in the Middle East could be very good for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and fighting global warming.
So like I said, it's far from clear what the best course of action is.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2653
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| What hurts troop morale more listening to some talk in Washington or being told that they will have to stay in Iraq for one more tour without a rest? My guess is the second hurts far more than the first. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | What hurts troop morale more listening to some talk in Washington or being told that they will have to stay in Iraq for one more tour without a rest? My guess is the second hurts far more than the first. |
If I was a soldier, I'd be demoralized by the fact that my leaders are totally incompetent.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1501
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | What hurts troop morale more listening to some talk in Washington or being told that they will have to stay in Iraq for one more tour without a rest? My guess is the second hurts far more than the first. |
Then you guess wrong....and frustrating as it is to be deployed and not feel you're getting anywhere, it is de-moralizing to hear your leadership willing to cut and run...as if that'll help.
The Australian PM was right..If I were Al-Queda, I'd do exactly what I'm doing now and circle March '08 on my calendar...start planning for Victory over America day...
I see that Sen Reid has taken a note from Hezbollah...after Hezbolla survived the Israeli attacks (and that's all they did), Nasrallah declared victory. Reid just declared victory even though Senate didn't get the 60 yes votes needed to carry the resolution...
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: |
Then you guess wrong....and frustrating as it is to be deployed and not feel you're getting anywhere, it is de-moralizing to hear your leadership willing to cut and run...as if that'll help.
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But what about the fact that no WMDs were found? What about the fact that Saddam had nothing to do with Sept. 11th?
Any soldier over there with even the slightest hint of critical thinking skills must be wondering, "Why am I over here?"
Not to mention, "Are we really bringing freedom and liberty to Iraq?"
If I were a soldier, I could easily blow off some non-binding resolution passed by some loser politicians playing politics in Washington. I would have a MUCH harder time coming to grips with my nagging doubts about the mission and its legitimacy and goals.
| Pondering wrote: |
..after Hezbolla survived the Israeli attacks (and that's all they did), Nasrallah declared victory. |
Really? My impression is that Hezbollah did MUCH better than anyone expected them to and that the world sees the Israeli operation against them as being a complete failure.
Don't get me wrong -I'm totally against Hezbollah (and the terrorists in Iraq as well, for that matter), but the reality of the situation in both places seems to be that the good guys are losing.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | If I was a soldier, I'd be demoralized by the fact that my leaders are totally incompetent. |
Stay on topic guys... what are the policticians who voted for this resolution going to do... if this works? The early results are positive... things seem to be working... so, what if.... if... this works? What are they going to say.... in a frigging election year... if it works.
You all are ignoring the obvious. What options are they leaving open for themselves?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | What hurts troop morale more listening to some talk in Washington or being told that they will have to stay in Iraq for one more tour without a rest? My guess is the second hurts far more than the first. |
No... actually what bothers them the most is the fact that the majority of Americans are idiots and are unable to recognize the facts surrounding this war, the resolution, the consequences, and the idiots who haven't got a clue to what the price of freedom really is. The fact that the majority of Americans have no stomach for actions that provide them the very freedom to criticize it.
Thats what hurts troop moral...
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | As for the Democrats trying to lose in Iraq, they only passed a non-binding resolution. It's just b.s. anyways. It's completely symbolic and has no teeth. |
It doesn't matter if it is binding or not. Just like many of them are distancing thmeselves from thier intial vote in 2002 on the War...they are, in no uncertain terms, resolving here (binding or not) to lose. As if we win... they will be wrong. In an election year, it will therefore require them to start lieing through thier teeth to defend thier vote if this thing works.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7000
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Why doesn't the democratic house simply board a few planes, fly to Iraq, and start shooting our troops in the head. It would serve the same purpose and be a lot quicker...
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| i agree with p38... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Why doesn't the democratic house simply board a few planes, fly to Iraq, and start shooting our troops in the head. It would serve the same purpose and be a lot quicker... |
I think that an act which killed MANY more U.S. troops in Iraq than any non-binding resolution EVER will was the disbanding of the Iraqi army.
That single decision has cost the lives of more U.S. servicemen than Nancy Pelosi could ever hope to kill with her little games in Washington.
You guys are acting like political games being played by loser Democrats in Washington are somehow more dangerous to the troops than the MASSIVE STRATEGIC mistakes made by Rumsfeld and the White House.
You guys could have won this thing clearly and decisively if Rummy wasn't a complete retard in military matters. He sent over a light fighting force to do the job of an occupying army. He did this over the objections of QUALIFIED U.S. generals who actually studied military theory and had combat experience.
Despite that, things could have gone ok. America had a window of opportunity in Iraq where you had the people's goodwill on your side. The 'insurgency' didn't start in earnest until well into the occupation.
But no, Rummy blew that one as well. Again, against all objections, the idiot disbands the Iraqi army, thereby GUARANTEEING that the most vicious and well-trained (and armed) men in the country would have nothing to lose and everything to gain by fighting against America...
If you guys care about the lives of U.S. troops, then you've seriously got to stop worrying about political antics and start putting the blame for the debacle in Iraq where it belongs.
If you love and support the troops, you should hate and denounce the Bush White House.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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