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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: Net Neutrality |
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Have you guys heard about the topic of net neutrality?
It's pretty interesting; one one side you have some evil corporations, and on the other side you have literally hundreds of different groups joining forces. This includes all sorts of faith-based groups, church groups, Christian groups, and others.
Which side are you on?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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knuckle
Young Wolf
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 501
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hi P---------
do we get stock options if we side with the evil corporations?My portfolio is looking kind of weak against the market..... 
much love-----------knuckle |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | Have you guys heard about the topic of net neutrality?
It's pretty interesting; one one side you have some evil corporations, and on the other side you have literally hundreds of different groups joining forces. This includes all sorts of faith-based groups, church groups, Christian groups, and others.
Which side are you on? |
 Hold on...
Let me get this straight... we are suppose to decide if we want to be on the side of EVIL corporations... not just corporations... but the EVIL ones... or... we can join a loose conglomerate of a bunch of (what I'm sure is a list of usual leftist anti-globalist tree hugging frog licking hippies) that have a few churches (what... Unitarian?) that are part of it too?
Hmmm... let me think... I just don't know... EVIL... um... good... it is just so hard to decide... can I poll the audience P???
Would this not be Net Neutrality? But a form of bias?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1512
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Net Neutrality is an interesting issue too...I wouldn't say the companies are evil...they're doing what companies do and looking to gain more control over the market and maximize profits based on supply/demand (Airline travel being a good analogy)....the government's interest is in more security, better ability to catch criminals (child porn, identity theft, etc)....
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Would this not be Net Neutrality? But a form of bias? |
Obviously you can tell from the way I asked my question what MY opinion is. I don't really think I have to ask my questions in an unbiased way on this forum... Has my bias ever stopped people from disagreeing with me here?!?
If anything, it just gives dissenters an excuse to call me biased, and that causes a distraction. You'd think that I'd know better by now...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: | | Net Neutrality is an interesting issue too...I wouldn't say the companies are evil...they're doing what companies do and looking to gain more control over the market and maximize profits based on supply/demand (Airline travel being a good analogy)....the government's interest is in more security, better ability to catch criminals (child porn, identity theft, etc).... |
I consider it to be an interesting issue because the VAST majority of the public (once you've explained the issue to them) wants the net to be neutral. However, for some mysterious reasion (ahem, lobbyists and campaign contributions, ahem), MANY of the politicians are on the side of the telecom companies.
I think this is a wonderful example of how dysfunctional the government has become and how it is no longer working in the interests of the people; it is working in the interests of big corporations.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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While I am aware of some ill fated attempts to control such activity as porn on the Internet, and attempts to tax things bought over the Internet. I wasn't aware that the word neutrality applied.
With dread and foreboding, I put myself on the side of freedom, however you decide to call it, freedom of non-interference. I realize that puts me on the side of pornographers and other evil types but the price of freedom is the company you keep.
Remember David in the wilderness? what types did he collect? |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: |
With dread and foreboding, I put myself on the side of freedom, however you decide to call it, freedom of non-interference. I realize that puts me on the side of pornographers and other evil types but the price of freedom is the company you keep. |
It is still unclear whether or not you are for or against net neutrality. Both sides have claimed that their side is the one which is the result of 'government non-interference'.
Net neutrality is about whether or not the internet should be neutral in the sense that your packets are just the same as everyone else's packets. The question boils down to this: should the telecom companies who own and operate the internet be able to control who gets to use them and at what speed?
For example, should Bell south be allowed to censor the traffic which is going over its network cables?
Or should the internet be more like standard infrastructure like roads? Everyone gets to use them, and no preference is given. There is no 'fast lane' for rich people.
Traditionally, the net has been neutral. This has allowed companies like Google and YouTube and EBay to start up and thrive. If net hadn't been neutral, then the little guys wouldn't have stood a chance.
Right now, a blog can compete with a major news corporation based on the quality of its content. That is not possible without neutrality.
The telecom companies are fighting VERY hard to change the internet so that it is no longer neutral. Even though the vast majority of American internet users are against it, they are lobbying congressmen and senators like crazy to get them to ignore the wishes of the people.
That's net neutrality in a nutshell.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
Would this not be Net Neutrality? But a form of bias? |
Obviously you can tell from the way I asked my question what MY opinion is. I don't really think I have to ask my questions in an unbiased way on this forum... Has my bias ever stopped people from disagreeing with me here?!? |
No... you are right... it just struck me funny that even you would be that blatent with it... Sorry... but I thought it was funny. 
| Quote: | | If anything, it just gives dissenters an excuse to call me biased, and that causes a distraction. You'd think that I'd know better by now... |
I'm not sure what you got against legal corporations operating within the confines of law, rules, and regulations... but it seems that since some of them don't, you automatically assume all of them don't, thus making them evil.
I thought biases and stereotyping were practices abhorred by lefty's? Now, you appear to be embracing them... and that has me a bit confused. Take for instance that school you go to… it prolly has a ton of money pouring in from corporations and folks with uddles of cash to blow… yet… you still go to the school.
Now, if you were to consistently apply your logical you would quit the school, expose those corporate sponsors for being the evil maniacal blood sucking sorry excuses for legitimate businesses they ever thought of operating as… and then perhaps get a few of your longhaired canaboid using acquaintances to spray paint their 3 miles to the gallon SUVs global-warming red when they come there to drop off their endowment checks…
What-cha think?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
I'm not sure what you got against legal corporations operating within the confines of law, rules, and regulations... but it seems that since some of them don't, you automatically assume all of them don't, thus making them evil.
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No, I am not claiming that the corporations fighting against net neutrality are breaking the law. They're not. They're working well within the confines of the law in the same way that Rockefeller was able to use monopolistic practices to muscle out all competition and innovation. It's these types of corporations that are really dangerous.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
I thought biases and stereotyping were practices abhorred by lefty's?
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Who says that I'm a lefty? All of my left-wing friends think that I'm right-wing. If you think I'm a lefty, then I know some people that you REALLY wouldn't like!
| Trinity1 wrote: |
Take for instance that school you go to… it prolly has a ton of money pouring in from corporations and folks with uddles of cash to blow… yet… you still go to the school. |
As far as I am aware, my university doesn't take any money at all from corporate sponsors.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
As far as I am aware, my university doesn't take any money at all from corporate sponsors. |
Really? That would be quite impressive.
And now for an anecdote: At UBC, they had obvious sponsorship from Coca-Cola. Coca-Cola had the building I spent the majority of my time in turn off their water fountains so that we'd be more likely to buy Dasani water.
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
Ana's Bananas |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1512
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
As far as I am aware, my university doesn't take any money at all from corporate sponsors. |
http://www.utoronto.ca/respirology/sponsor.htm
moreover, the University of Toronto has raised over $1 Billion in "large and small" donations under their 'Campaign'
since 1997....
That's good...but I find it impossible that your school (if it isn't U of T) has no corporate sponsorship...
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality |
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This is interesting. I guess I was speaking from my own personal experience in my department, and that I was wrong to generalize!
It does appear that U of T takes corporate money. I stand corrected.
| Pondering wrote: |
moreover, the University of Toronto has raised over $1 Billion in "large and small" donations under their 'Campaign'
since 1997....
That's good...but I find it impossible that your school (if it isn't U of T) has no corporate sponsorship... |
Yup, you're right.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: |
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What does net neutrality have to do with University corporate sponsorships?????? The universities are not the net are they?
AS to P123...'s confusion about my position let me clarify. Freedom means self censorship not enforced censorship. If I find myself in amongst the dregs of society, and act and talk like them, then how can I claim I am different than them.
Just to use the medium though doesn't mean I am one of them. Anyone who would claim otherwise just doesn't care to find out. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | What does net neutrality have to do with University corporate sponsorships?????? |
Not much; it was an aside.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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