 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1512
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| P1234567890 wrote: |
And what about all of the people who CAN'T move? For example, where are the 90 million Bangladeshis living in the lowlands going to go? Do you think America is going to invite them all in?
Through no fault of their own, many of them will die, and the people who are putting CO2 into the atmosphere right now are their murderers. |
Ok..see this is what I mean..that's the guilt of priviledge glaring thru...
First of all, Bangladeshi's didn't just pop into existance in Bangladesh....their ancestors migrated there...they can migrate away...yes, that stresses all kinds of resources, but that's how people have populated the planet...
Centuries ago, there were thriving civilizations in what are now deserts due to the then adequate water supply that is now gone...and all that happened WAYYYYY before the Industrial Revolution....
I'm not saying you don't have points, I'm saying that the over-the-top reaction is fanatical, fansiful, and detrimental to a convincing argument...
You seem to blame the Western nations for killing the Earth, but we're not the only species here...what about the Amazonian farmer that is using slash and burn techniques in an attempt to better his life buy destroying the rain forest (kind of like cutting out your own lungs in order to be able to have something to eat)....Bangledesh has an urban population that has factories, cars, and they create at least some of the CO2 that you claim is killing us all...
on last point, Do you know what happens if the Artic Ice cap melts? Nothing...
Try this at home. Take a glass 90% full of water. Add ice until the water is just about to overflow due to displace. Watch the ice melt. Does the glass overflow? That's the Artic circle. There is no land under that ice, so when it melts, it's like ice in a glass of water...
Now, Greenland and Antartica, that's a different story, but, while there has been some significant Antartic melting (which is a normal process anyway, although slightly excellerated right now), there is also significant thickening in other parts of the Antartic...the net gain/loss slighlty edges towards loss, but not cataclysmically....
BTW, The Day after Tomorrow is a horrible film, they attempt to use Sci-Fi as moral lesson and there science is horribly, horribly wrong...it's disengenous at best.
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | BTW, The Day after Tomorrow is a horrible film, they attempt to use Sci-Fi as moral lesson and there science is horribly, horribly wrong...it's disengenous at best. |
Yeah, but it was a really cool movie none the less.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
The premise for "The day after tomorrow" was the desalinization of the gulf stream due to the melting of the ice caps, and the nearly simultaneous effects the temperature of the water had on the weather. There are some scientists who have warned us of that very same thing. While this is still theory it is being checked out at least.
As for the rich folk whose oceanside vacation houses will be destroyed, will the taxpayers here reimburse them for their loss through FEMA or by having our insurance payments go up?
As long as I could remember those Bangladeshis have been battling the sea. If they ever get tired of that battle maybe they should seek higher land somewhere else. How much intelligence does it take? As far as my home becoming ocean, I would leave sooner than later. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | As far as my home becoming ocean, I would leave sooner than later. |
That sounds like adaptive behavior! How stupid could one be to assert that humans can adapt to thier environment?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dim12trav wrote: | | The premise for "The day after tomorrow" was the desalinization of the gulf stream due to the melting of the ice caps, and the nearly simultaneous effects the temperature of the water had on the weather. There are some scientists who have warned us of that very same thing. While this is still theory it is being checked out at least. |
Just because there are scientists checking it out doesn't necessarily mean there is any validity in the theory... does it?
| Quote: | | As for the rich folk whose oceanside vacation houses will be destroyed, will the taxpayers here reimburse them for their loss through FEMA or by having our insurance payments go up? |
If Hillary is elected in 2008... FEMA picks up the tab as those are her campaign contributors. 
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pondering wrote: |
First of all, Bangladeshi's didn't just pop into existance in Bangladesh....their ancestors migrated there...they can migrate away...yes, that stresses all kinds of resources, but that's how people have populated the planet...
|
Back then there were no borders and there was plenty of space in choice locations for anyone who wanted to live wherever they wanted. Today we have closed borders. Again I ask you, which country is going to take in millions of Bangladeshis? I know that Canada won't. I know that America won't. Who?
I think it's much more likely that its neighbors will use force to make sure that the millions of refugees don't enter and destabilize their countries. You're the leader of a country and you've got two options:
1. Let millions of refugees die, or
2. Let them enter your country and destroy it.
What do you do?
| Pondering wrote: |
You seem to blame the Western nations for killing the Earth, but we're not the only species here...what about the Amazonian farmer that is using slash and burn techniques in an attempt to better his life buy destroying the rain forest (kind of like cutting out your own lungs in order to be able to have something to eat)....Bangledesh has an urban population that has factories, cars, and they create at least some of the CO2 that you claim is killing us all...
|
I hope that is not the impression that I've been giving. I blame the other countries as well. Heck, I was just in India and my lungs experienced first-hand how filthy their air is and how they're the least environmentally-friendly group of people I've ever seen. I've got pictures of the air in Delhi; the smoke / smog is like perma-fog that never goes away.
But that doesn't change the fact that we're the leaders of the planet, and as such we've got to step up. We're also the only ones rich enough to do anything about the problem. I say we start mass producing electric cars. Regardless of whether or not global warming is true, it's one heck of a marketing tool that could be used to sell these electric cars to the third world. If you really want, you can see global warming as a money-making opportunity.
| Pondering wrote: |
on last point, Do you know what happens if the Artic Ice cap melts? Nothing...
Try this at home. Take a glass 90% full of water. Add ice until the water is just about to overflow due to displace. Watch the ice melt. Does the glass overflow? That's the Artic circle. There is no land under that ice, so when it melts, it's like ice in a glass of water...
Now, Greenland and Antartica, that's a different story
|
That's why I only ever mention Greenland and Antarctica.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | That's why I only ever mention Greenland and Antarctica. |
Does 'icecaps', 'polar icecaps', and 'arctic', count as only Greenland and Antarctica?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | That's why I only ever mention Greenland and Antarctica. |
Does 'icecaps', 'polar icecaps', and 'arctic', count as only Greenland and Antarctica? |
Once those go, there'll be less ice to reflect the sun's rays and more water to absorb them, speeding up the demise of Greenlandian and Antarctican ice.
BTW nice joke earlier about the Day After Tomorrow movie
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
Ana's Bananas |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Very good Ana! I've been told you are an intelligent woman...
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
The biggest part of the theory in D.A.T. is the idea that the gulf stream had lost its salinity due to melting icecaps and was much colder by about 10 degrees making Europe (which depends upon that gulf stream for much of its warmth) far colder. It might tip the scales and cause a counter balance to the warming of the CO2.
Likewise when the Antarctic ice melts, will that not also affect the worlds oceans and make them less salty? The world's largest area of fresh water (the Ice caps) melting into the largest salt water. Even a 1 or 2 % change in the salinity of the oceans will greatly affect vast areas of this world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | That's why I only ever mention Greenland and Antarctica. |
Does 'icecaps', 'polar icecaps', and 'arctic', count as only Greenland and Antarctica? |
The best way of thinking about it is that there is land-based ice, and there is sea-based ice. When sea-based ice melts, it doesn't matter. But when land-based ice melts, the sea levels rise.
The VAST majority of the Earth's land-based ice are located in Antarctica (something like 85%) and Greenland (something like 10%).
Incidentally, I'm watching a VERY interesting National Geographic documentary about the role played by the Amazon in global warming. I will happily share it with anyone here who wants it, and I highly recommend it, especially to global warming nay-sayers.
You can also bittorrent it here:
http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/356994/Documentary_Climate_Change_The_Day_The_Oceans_Boiled_Please_Sh
It is free and it is legal.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1512
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting article, but what the guy says is wrong. During the past 50 years, the amount of sunlight reaching the surface of the Earth decreased by about 20% due to particulate pollution (during the past decade or so, we cleaned up our pollution, and global dimming decreased). I have a couple of peer-reviewed papers which will prove to you that I'm not making this up if you want them.
In spite of this, the temperature of the planet got hotter.
So the dude in the article is telling us the exact opposite of what is really going on. If the amount of sunlight reaching us has decreased, then how can the sun possibly be to blame for global warming???
Incidentally, living in America you probably don't know this, but the National Post is Canada's most right-wing newspaper; most Canadians consider it to be nothing more than a shill for the Conservative party. It's not a very good source for objective facts about things like global warming.
Also, if these climate scientists who deny man's role in global warming really believe what they're saying, then why won't any of them put their money where their mouths are and take the bet that I mentioned a while ago? MIT's famous global warming skeptic by the name of Lindzen showed his true colours when he refused to take the bet (which he first put out as a challenge). He also received a lot of research money from the oil industry...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
P123... you've missed the point again:
| P123 wrote: |
That's why I only ever mention Greenland and Antarctica. |
| JP wrote: | | Does 'icecaps', 'polar icecaps', and 'arctic', count as only Greenland and Antarctica? |
I'm just wondering if icecaps, polar icecaps, and arctic count as 'only ever mentioning Greenland and Antarctica'?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8337
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: |
I'm just wondering if icecaps, polar icecaps, and arctic count as 'only ever mentioning Greenland and Antarctica'? |
When I talk about icecaps, I mean the entire ice caps, including the land-based as well as the sea-based ice.
When I talk about the icecaps melting, I'm talking about all of it.
But really the only important parts are the land-based ice, and unless I've been sloppy, most of my posts should be focused on them. The sea-based ice plays a role as a buffer, and it helps reflect lots of sunlight back into space rather than letting the oceans absorb the heat energy, but the land-based ice is much more important.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
