 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Sky
Booted
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 354
|
 Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Why is the Great Tribulation Coming ? |
 |
|
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Sky wrote: | [The Jews are still God's chosen people,
. |
Yes...Spiritual Jews (Christians) are God's chosen people ...IF...they follow Christ in kleeping the 10 commandments of God....as Jesus said.
THe Bible prophecy in Daniel 9:24=27 shows that God gave National Israel a certain in which to get their act together.....and when they rejected Jesus as their Messiah, God rejected them as His chosen people ....EXACTLY, LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS.
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God. |
SS,
I would suppose you to be correct, in so far as the 7th Day Adventist teachings feel placated; but not according to mainstream Christianity
"EXACTLY, LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS" according to the way the 7th Day Adventists have taught you. Indeed, your blinders are very thick. Anyone can twist the scriptures and rationalize it to such a point that they make the bible mean anything they want it to and the 7thDA's are second only to the JW's on that acocunt; at least the Mormons went off and wrote their own 'testament'.
There is no merit in the "I, a Gentile that believes in Christ, am a (spiritual) Jew. This does nothing but steal the blessings God gave to Israel and leaves the Jew all the curses. How Christian!
Jews are God's promised earthly people; Christians are God's promised heavenly people. With that much promised why would you or anyone for that matter shame Jesus by stealing from His people, the Jews?
You speak of a national Israel but ignore the fact that Israel is also a blessed and chosen chosen people with their own religion. Can you name any other nation or religion that can claim this uniqueness? No!
Please, do not proof-text indiscriminately jumping around the bible pulling out every conceivable verse you think will support whatever argument you wish to win at any and every conceivable moment.
You are on the right track as far as believing that by faith on even the name of Jesus will save you. After that it is a totally different story. Until you can put the guiding, leading and teaching of the Holy Spirit above the teachings of the 7th DA's your understanding of the scriptures will never improve. And the first place to begin is to realize that Ellen White was a sickly plagiarizing fraud with a good publicist, both of which, are long since dead.
So much of the 7thDA teachings DO have merit but as long as they put THEIR teachings and their belief that EGW and her 'writings' are sacrosanct and above Jesus, Himself, they will never progress any further than the misguided deception that have embroiled themselves in.
The 7thDA's have one other thing slightly in their favor, as well; that being their Adventist brethren, the JW's are so far off base even they don't know what they believe; whereas, in the 7thDA's case, they do know what they believe, they just don't know why.
I think it would be a good idea to start a thread listing various beliefs and denominations and giving a brief synopsis of what each believes. Look for it.
Best,
Sky |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Why is the Great Tribulation Coming ? |
|
|
| P1234567890 wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | Why is the Great Tribulation Coming ?
This is a question that 98% of the people in the Christian world ...NEVER...ask themselves !
Maybe it is because they have accepted satan's deception, regarding the Secret Rapture theory ?
After all, the Secret Rapture theory is intended to render people, to be totally UNprepared, for the Great Crisis just ahead of us. |
I think that the answer to this question is very simple. People do not ask themselves WHY the Great Tribulation is coming because most of them do not believe that it IS coming, at least any time soon. |
Yes...it is a lack of faith in the Word of God !
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2656
Location: Salem Oregon
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: Tribulation or the great tribulation |
|
|
While here on Earth there has undoubtedly been great tribulation (in human terms) it is still not the "great tribualtion" in God's terms.
The "great tribulation" is God's wrath on Earth and those living on the Earth, not just men being wicked as always. This "great tribulation" will not be the environmental disaster caused by pollution, not human wars even germ warfare but God's wrath. It cannot be attributed to human will power but explained only by understanding where it comes from.
Jesus' death on the cross was an example of God wrath. Normally an execution by crucifixion took many days eventually suffocating, drowning in their own fluids as it filled the lungs. But prophetically (Isa53) God crushed Jesus, and he died not from the crucfixion but something far more terrible.
Believers are considered by Paul to being partakers of Jesus' death and therefore already having received the wrath through the death of Jesus need not experience it again. Ergo the rapture.
Many of the posters to this thread seem to confuse the two types of tribulation to their error. Consider yourself corrected. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: Re: Tribulation or the great tribulation |
|
|
| dim12trav wrote: | While here on Earth there has undoubtedly been great tribulation (in human terms) it is still not the "great tribualtion" in God's terms.
The "great tribulation" is God's wrath on Earth and those living on the Earth, not just men being wicked as always. This "great tribulation" will not be the environmental disaster caused by pollution, not human wars even germ warfare but God's wrath. It cannot be attributed to human will power but explained only by understanding where it comes from.
Jesus' death on the cross was an example of God wrath. Normally an execution by crucifixion took many days eventually suffocating, drowning in their own fluids as it filled the lungs. But prophetically (Isa53) God crushed Jesus, and he died not from the crucfixion but something far more terrible.
Believers are considered by Paul to being partakers of Jesus' death and therefore already having received the wrath through the death of Jesus need not experience it again. Ergo the rapture.
Many of the posters to this thread seem to confuse the two types of tribulation to their error. Consider yourself corrected. |
It is you...that needs correction, as the Bible says Christ will come ...AFTER....the Mark of the Beast scenerio.
#1.) Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Warning against the M of B
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
people who resisit the M of B
THEN CHRIST COMES.........
14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
#2.) 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away[color=red] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [/color]
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
This Bible verse clearly shows that the anti-christ comes ...BEFORE....Christ comes again.
#3.) Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
There is ...ONLY...2 resurrections.
One for thr Righteous dead, and one for the wicked.
This Bible verse in Revelation 20 clearly shows those, who died in the Mark of the Beast scenrio, were in the 1st resurreection.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
s.s....preach on my brother preach on...you must warn them whether or not they will hear it...and i must say...
on somethings we are sooo much alike...and when we disagree..i don't have it in my heart to argue with you...as you really blessed me once  ...  ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| theseldomscene wrote: | s.s....preach on my brother preach on...you must warn them whether or not they will hear it...and i must say...
on somethings we are sooo much alike...and when we disagree..i don't have it in my heart to argue with you...as you really blessed me once :wink: ... :D :D ... |
Oh, my Friend.....it is God who brings bleesings to those who will do His will.
I'm just a messenger.
119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2656
Location: Salem Oregon
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: All the saints are in heaven |
|
|
Starting in Rev 5 there is no more mention of christians or saints on Earth because they are all in heaven by then.
Like the Jewish wedding ceremony the Bridegroom(Jesus) takes his bride(the church) home and is sealed away from the world for awhile.
Your right in the sense that Jesus will not come to rule and reign until the ripeness of the corruption that Satan represens is full. But even that is not the great tribulation. Those who suffer tribulation under the domination of Satan will not be suffering the "great tribulation" either, because the "great tribulation is God's wrath on the Earth and those still there on the Earth.
Those who want to deal with God's wrath are going to get it in full measure unprotected by Jesus' loving embrace. There is no pity for those who suffer this, we (those who are the bride) will be in the wedding chamber experiencing our wedding night, with no time for such thoughts of pity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2270
Location: WI USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Why is the Great Tribulation Coming ? |
|
|
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | THe Great Tribulation period is for the purpose of forcing everyone on earth into making a decision....either for Jesus Christ ...or against Jesus Christ.....so that God can end this Great Controversy between Christ and Satan. |
So everyone will be forced during this "mark of the beast scenario (don't you hate that word scenario? Say it to yourself a few times.)" to choose whether they'll go to church on Saturday or on Sunday? The purpose of the tribulation will be to see whether everyone will pick the right day to go to church? What happens to those who want to sleep in on both days and not go to church? Would they not still be observing a day of rest on the right day? They've got both bases covered!
I'm not sure this test to force everyone to choose whether they'll go to church on the right day will work.
A Great Controversy between Christ and Satan? Didn't Jesus win that controversy a long time ago?
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
wow...i never thought of that...it is all about the saturrday or sunday thing...the mark, the trib., the persecution!...
we won't be able to buy, sell, or trade unless we go to church on the right day.... 
why couldn't i see that before?...  ...thanks zath for ponting that clear... ...or i would have never seen s.s.'s wisdom here  ...
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Mark of the Beast scenerio is the Judgment of the LIVING.
It is a time where one is either for God, or against God.....as there will be ABSOLUTELY no middle ground, for anyone, in all the earth.
God has to wind things up sometime...and the M.B is the thing that will do it !
ABSOLUTELY NO ONE goes to heaven or Hell, until the Judgment of God is over with, and every case decided for all time.
REMEMBER...when Jesus comes again, HE said that HE birngs HIS reward with HIM...to give EVERY MAN...their reward.....
Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
(Judgment of the dead, is in progress right now....)
22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Why is the Great Tribulation Coming ? |
|
|
[quote="P1234567890"] | Silver Surfer wrote: | Why is the Great Tribulation Coming ?
This is a question that 98% of the people in the Christian world ...NEVER...ask themselves !
Maybe it is because they have accepted satan's deception, regarding the Secret Rapture theory ?
After all, the Secret Rapture theory is intended to render people, to be totally UNprepared, for the Great Crisis just ahead of us. |
| Quote: |
I think that the answer to this question is very simple. People do not ask themselves WHY the Great Tribulation is coming because most of them do not believe that it IS coming, at least any time soon. |
And Yet, the Bible tells us over and over again to be READY for Christ's return.
In other words, there is to be a preparation to be made, for those who are going to heaven when Christ returns.
How can anyone survive the 'Mark of the Beast' scenerio.....if one does not know and understand what is involved, during the Great Tribulation period ?
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
