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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7565
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:49 am Post subject: Should public schools teach religion? |
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Is there actually anyone here who thinks that their kids should be learning how to pray, what rites to perform, etc. in public school?
Should public schools teach that God exists and that Jesus died for all of our sins?
Should creation be taught in school? If so, should it be taught in science class or some place else?
I bet that nobody here can predict what my answers to these questions are...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2280
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Yes, yes and yes (Biology Class).
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Peace
The HeKkLeR |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7565
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| HeKkLeR wrote: | | Yes, yes and yes (Biology Class). |
You would seriously trust your children's religious education to the government?
And how will you react when the school hires a Muslim teacher one day and that Muslim teacher starts teaching your kids about how Mohammed was the last and greatest prophet, how they must make a pilgrimage to Mecca, how the girls in the class have to wear veils, etc., etc.???
And what about when they hire a Scientologist who then starts to teach your kids about Xenu?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2280
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, P#. Those are different questions in their entirety, than the ones I answered.
Should I answer those, also? Or were they rhetorical?
I will answer this one, though, since it is based on the ones I did answer:
| Quote: | | You would seriously trust your children's religious education to the government? |
Yes, as long as the bible is used for reference.
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Peace
The HeKkLeR |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6067
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| HeKkLeR wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | You would seriously trust your children's religious education to the government? |
Yes, as long as the bible is used for reference. |
I could "teach" a version of Christianity I am absolutely certain you would disagree with "using the Bible for reference."
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7565
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| HeKkLeR wrote: |
Should I answer those, also? Or were they rhetorical?
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No, they weren't rhetorical; they are highly relevant to the original questions. If you start teaching religion in schools, it's only a matter of time before you have Muslims and Scientologists teaching your children.
Or are you saying that ONLY Christianity should be taught in the public school system, because you know that this is impossible, since it is against the constitution. It's either all or nothing.
| HeKkLeR wrote: |
I will answer this one, though, since it is based on the ones I did answer:
| Quote: | | You would seriously trust your children's religious education to the government? |
Yes, as long as the bible is used for reference. |
I just don't understand how you would trust a complete stranger to give your children religious instruction. Isn't that YOUR job? Are you like really busy or something to the point of having absolutely no time available?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2280
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| P# wrote: | No, they weren't rhetorical; they are highly relevant to the original questions. If you start teaching religion in schools, it's only a matter of time before you have Muslims and Scientologists teaching your children.
Or are you saying that ONLY Christianity should be taught in the public school system, because you know that this is impossible, since it is against the constitution. It's either all or nothing. |
Ok, if they were not rhetorical, then I'll answer them: I would not like it for someone in the public school to be teaching my child any other religion besides that of Christianity. But it does happen, and my trust is surely in Jesus to show my child the truth at the appointed time. So, I would... and do... deal with it.
You see, here in Germany, they have a class call "Ethic", where they do teach the children about the different religions. Yes, Muslim, Buddhism, and various other religions. When my daughter would come home and tell me about what she learned in that class, I would listen to her and smile. I would even discuss some of the religious teachings with her. Then I would make sure she did her bible reading when she was supposed to, and most importantly, I would speak the word of God to her on a regular basis.
| P# wrote: | | I just don't understand how you would trust a complete stranger to give your children religious instruction. Isn't that YOUR job? Are you like really busy or something to the point of having absolutely no time available? |
Hmmm... should I personally meet the pastor or preist of every church before I let my child attend a service? My trust is in Jesus Christ, P#. I understand that it is hard for you to understand to not put confidence in the flesh.
And to assert that I have absolutely no time for my child because I would like the teachings of Jesus Christ to be taught to my child in school also, borders the absurd. That's like saying that I have absolutely no time for my child because I want a stranger to teach math to my child... or science... or dancing... or ethics... or morals... or anything else that a child should learn while growing. Dontcha think?
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The HeKkLeR |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2280
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | I could "teach" a version of Christianity I am absolutely certain you would disagree with "using the Bible for reference." |
I'm sure you could, FFT. I'm sure you could...
But that is the thrill of this thing called "life". Many do and will teach totally different versions of things. That is why each class in school has a book used for reference that has solid information in it. If a teacher teaches something different than what the reference book states, then the student can always correct the teacher, or even better, bypass the teacher's mistake and gain the correct understanding through the reference book.
When I was young and still in school, I lived in the south for a short while, and was totally appalled at my english teacher's english. But I knew that I could always go into my english book to gain the correct teachings.
No person is perfect, but God's word is. 
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The HeKkLeR |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | could "teach" a version of Christianity I am absolutely certain you would disagree with "using the Bible for reference." |
No you couldn't. I'm sure you could teach something, but it certainly wouldn't be Christianity, and since Christianity doesn't come in 'versions' it wouldn't be a version of christianity either.
Oh, by the way - don't respond with all the nonsense the world has to say about Christianity and all the religions out there that call themselves 'christian'. I'm speaking strictly from a scriptural and relational point of view, and none of what the guy down the street says makes a bit of difference in this respect - unless that guy down the street was the Christ...
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1369
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting P#s that your original question was religion and then the details became "Christianity"....
Actually, I do support religious teaching in schools as part of the social/cultural texture of history/politics/society...but that does mean you have to teach "all" religions...
I had a world history class in college that used religion as the vehicle to carry the lectures from region to region...I found it fascinating.
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Link to intro post of "who I am"
"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7565
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| HeKkLeR wrote: |
You see, here in Germany, they have a class call "Ethic", where they do teach the children about the different religions. Yes, Muslim, Buddhism, and various other religions. When my daughter would come home and tell me about what she learned in that class, I would listen to her and smile. I would even discuss some of the religious teachings with her. Then I would make sure she did her bible reading when she was supposed to, and most importantly, I would speak the word of God to her on a regular basis.
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Where do you live in Germany? What do you do? Do the Germans even have churches which are compatible with your beliefs?
| HeKkLeR wrote: |
| P# wrote: | | I just don't understand how you would trust a complete stranger to give your children religious instruction. Isn't that YOUR job? Are you like really busy or something to the point of having absolutely no time available? |
Hmmm... should I personally meet the pastor or preist of every church before I let my child attend a service? My trust is in Jesus Christ, P#. I understand that it is hard for you to understand to not put confidence in the flesh.
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You seem to be pretty serious about your faith. If I were as serious about you, then I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't entrust ANYONE else with my child's spiritual enlightenment. If you have trust in Jesus Christ, then why on Earth would you need a pastor or priest?!?
| HeKkLeR wrote: |
And to assert that I have absolutely no time for my child because I would like the teachings of Jesus Christ to be taught to my child in school also, borders the absurd. That's like saying that I have absolutely no time for my child because I want a stranger to teach math to my child... or science... or dancing... or ethics... or morals... or anything else that a child should learn while growing. Dontcha think? |
There's a difference between learning how to add numbers together and the growth of your child's immortal soul. If you think that your child's religious education is no more important than her math classes, then by all means, go ahead and entrust her soul to some government employee.
But for the record, I don't think I would entrust my child's education to other people. Not even math class. Education is too important to be farming out to poorly-qualified teachers.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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| Back to top |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7565
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Christianity doesn't come in 'versions' |
As far as I can tell, there are lots of different 'versions' or 'flavours' or whatever of Christianity.
For example, I would argue that Anglicans and Catholics and Lutherans and Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox and Southern Baptists and Presbyterians and so on are all different versions of Christianity... So much so that in the past they have killed each other en masse because of the differences.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7565
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: | Interesting P#s that your original question was religion and then the details became "Christianity"....
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That's because it's impossible to separate them. In today's world, if you started preaching one religion in the classroom, the door would be open for preaching any religion.
| Pondering wrote: |
Actually, I do support religious teaching in schools as part of the social/cultural texture of history/politics/society...but that does mean you have to teach "all" religions...
I had a world history class in college that used religion as the vehicle to carry the lectures from region to region...I found it fascinating. |
I happen to agree that students should learn about religion, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about preaching and praying in the classroom.
Do you think that teachers should be leading prayers or giving sermons from ANY holy scriptures?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
|
| Back to top |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6067
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| HeKkLeR wrote: | | But that is the thrill of this thing called "life". Many do and will teach totally different versions of things. That is why each class in school has a book used for reference that has solid information in it. If a teacher teaches something different than what the reference book states, then the student can always correct the teacher, or even better, bypass the teacher's mistake and gain the correct understanding through the reference book. |
| RevJP wrote: | No you couldn't. I'm sure you could teach something, but it certainly wouldn't be Christianity, and since Christianity doesn't come in 'versions' it wouldn't be a version of christianity either.
Oh, by the way - don't respond with all the nonsense the world has to say about Christianity and all the religions out there that call themselves 'christian'. I'm speaking strictly from a scriptural and relational point of view, and none of what the guy down the street says makes a bit of difference in this respect - unless that guy down the street was the Christ... |
As I said, I could teach a version of Christianity that you wouldn't agree with using the Bible for reference. You wouldn't be able to "correct" me with the Bible because I'd be using it and only it. It's quite easy to craft a version (and yes, there are versions of Christianity, or perhaps "flavor" is more to your liking?) simply through taking certain things literally that you would definitely not like.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6067
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: | | Interesting P#s that your original question was religion and then the details became "Christianity".... |
Part of P's original question: | P1234567890 wrote: | | Should public schools teach that God exists and that Jesus died for all of our sins? |
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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