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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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 Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Donald Rumsfeld: The War Crimes Case
| Quote: | Rumsfeld was intimately involved with the interrogation of a Saudi detainee, Mohamed al-Qahtani, at Guantánamo in late 2002. General Geoffrey Miller, who later transferred many of his harsh interrogation techniques to Abu Ghaib, supervised the interrogation and gave Rumsfeld weekly updates on his progress. During a six-week period, al-Qahtani was stripped naked, forced to wear women's underwear on his head, denied bathroom access, threatened with dogs, forced to perform tricks while tethered to a dog leash, and subjected to sleep deprivation. Al-Qahtani was kept in solitary confinement for 160 days. For 48 days out of 54, he was interrogated for 18 to 20 hours a day.
Even though Rumsfeld didn't personally carry out the torture and mistreatment of prisoners, he authorized it. Under the doctrine of command responsibility, a commander can be liable for war crimes committed by his inferiors if he knew or should have known they would be committed and did nothing to stop of prevent them. The U.S. War Crimes Act provides for prosecution of a person who commits war crimes and prescribes life imprisonment, or even the death penalty if the victim dies.
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_________________
Proverbs 27:17
17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| IronSharpensIron wrote: | Donald Rumsfeld: The War Crimes Case
| Quote: | Rumsfeld was intimately involved with the interrogation of a Saudi detainee, Mohamed al-Qahtani, at Guantánamo in late 2002. General Geoffrey Miller, who later transferred many of his harsh interrogation techniques to Abu Ghaib, supervised the interrogation and gave Rumsfeld weekly updates on his progress. During a six-week period, al-Qahtani was stripped naked, forced to wear women's underwear on his head, denied bathroom access, threatened with dogs, forced to perform tricks while tethered to a dog leash, and subjected to sleep deprivation. Al-Qahtani was kept in solitary confinement for 160 days. For 48 days out of 54, he was interrogated for 18 to 20 hours a day.
Even though Rumsfeld didn't personally carry out the torture and mistreatment of prisoners, he authorized it. Under the doctrine of command responsibility, a commander can be liable for war crimes committed by his inferiors if he knew or should have known they would be committed and did nothing to stop of prevent them. The U.S. War Crimes Act provides for prosecution of a person who commits war crimes and prescribes life imprisonment, or even the death penalty if the victim dies.
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As much as I hate Rummy, I feel obliged to point out that the stuff described above is a lazy walk in the park when compared to some of the torture techniques that mankind has invented...
I would describe those things as 'uncomfortable' rather than 'excruciating'.
Certainly there doesn't exist a single Muslim country on the planet that is as nice when they're torturing people....
I think it would make a whole lot more sense charging Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Wolfowitz, Pearl, and others with treason or dereliction of duty or something like that for screwing up so badly in Iraq. If Rummy is going down, it should be for ignoring all of his generals and for fear-mongering to the American people.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think it would make a whole lot more sense charging Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Wolfowitz, Pearl, and others with treason or dereliction of duty or something like that for screwing up so badly in Iraq. |
 ....the charge will come from babylon itself.... |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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man...what i can't see is...at this point being able to blame bush for anything,...that is not to say he is not guilty of anything....but...how can a nation of free men...who throw in their hat together on a cause, just or unjust, seek out and find fault in one man for their miserable failures....
i supported the war...online...at this site...the hekkler and me...at that time we justified it...
we were wrong...
but for americans to say, it all stands on a few, is only a an attempt to push our guilt off on another....making a scapegoat of our leaders for something we are all...by which i am refering to the majority...the ones who claim and strut in our freedom that we are free men...responsible for...
that would be a most brutal and unfruitful endeavor....
there is really nothing but way of charges we have now that america didn't as a nation have when we reelected bush to the presidency....though by that time i did not support the war...nonetheless, i still supported the war at its beginning....
charge me too....why not?...
and even after all that came out, america still voted for, reelected and supported bush...
until/unless something new is found out that has to be shockingly surprising, new, and plain enough for even the most common man to see clearly, that says the president and his did something or knew something an covered or lied about it....then it would seem all who showed support for the war at the beginning would need to be held responsible for it...in this one nation of free men...especially any in a position to have a direct vote on the war in its beginnings....
let's just move forward. the dems won't have to do any negative blitz on anything at this point...the presidency is theirs...if more is revealed...deal with it appropriately...but for everything up till now america is knee deep in it together.....america needs to work together on getting out... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | man...what i can't see is...at this point being able to blame bush for anything,...that is not to say he is not guilty of anything....but...how can a nation of free men...who throw in their hat together on a cause, just or unjust, seek out and find fault in one man for their miserable failures....
i supported the war...online...at this site...the hekkler and me...at that time we justified it...
we were wrong...
but for americans to say, it all stands on a few, is only a an attempt to push our guilt off on another....making a scapegoat of our leaders for something we are all...by which i am refering to the majority...the ones who claim and strut in our freedom that we are free men...responsible for... |
You're right and you're wrong. America is not a free country. It may be one of the 'freest' around, but it isn't anything even remotely approaching what I would call 'free'. The mechanisms to control people in a democratic country even with a free press and free speech are well understood, and have been ever since England started becoming democratic.
One of these mechanisms is nationalism; American politicians are VERY adept at using Americans' patriotism to manipulate them. Another mechanism is religion; again, your politicians are masters at (mis)using religion to manipulate the masses. Another is mass media; again, your leaders are experts at using movies, tv, and radio to manipulate the people. Another is fear; you can get people to do anything if they're scared, and the Bush administration had the country terrified of Iraq.
So is the Iraq mess the fault of the American people, as you say, or is it the fault of Bush and his cabinet? Are the American people now trying to find a 'scapegoat' in George Bush?
I would argue that we should not blame the American people for the Iraq war NEARLY as much as the leaders. It was all their idea, and they're the ones who used all of the standard manipulative techniques such as mass media fear mongering to trick the American people into going along with the Iraq invasion. Should the American people have been able to see through the lies? Yes, of course, so they deserve some of the blame. But the bottom line is that they were PURPOSEFULLY manipulated by the Bush administration, who used very powerful techniques to trick them.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: |
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what if.....
nothing changes? 
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:58 am Post subject: |
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here -- have a laugh about the whole thing...
Comedy with rumsfeld leaving
_________________
Proverbs 27:17
17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another. |
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