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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: Opposite Day... |
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I'm really starting to wonder if the American government is purposefully doing the opposite of everything that they should be doing with respect to the environment...
Instead of giving tax breaks to people who buy fuel efficient vehicles, you guys are giving tax breaks for people who buy gas-guzzling SUVs...
Check it out: http://skeptically.org/oil/id7.html
Seriously, is it opposite day?!?
You've got oil lobbyists in charge of the agencies that are supposed to keep oil interests in check, you've got Inhofe in charge of the Senate environment committee, and you're giving tax breaks to people buying 6000 lb monster gas-guzzlers...
If only Bush could wage the war on drugs and the war on terror with as much zeal as he brings to the war on mother nature...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If only Bush could wage the war on drugs and the war on terror with as much zeal as he brings to the war on mother nature... |
Again?
P123... I know you are in Canada and may not understand the way the american government system works, but let me tell you again - it is not a tyrany. Bush doesn't write, approve, and implement every peice of legislation. That is the job of congress. A bill is written, discussed and voted on by the elected representatives of our country, Bush then gets to sign it into law or veto it.
If a bill that does 10 good things and 1 bad thing gets passed, the president has to decide between the lesser of two evils - sign it for the good it does and suck it up about the bad, or veto it because of the bad and never get anything good done.
It would be nice if everytime the american government does something stupid that the appropriate parties were held accountable, and not make the claim that Bush did this or that.... 
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | If only Bush could wage the war on drugs and the war on terror with as much zeal as he brings to the war on mother nature... |
Again?
P123... I know you are in Canada and may not understand the way the american government system works, but let me tell you again - it is not a tyrany. Bush doesn't write, approve, and implement every peice of legislation. That is the job of congress. A bill is written, discussed and voted on by the elected representatives of our country, Bush then gets to sign it into law or veto it.
If a bill that does 10 good things and 1 bad thing gets passed, the president has to decide between the lesser of two evils - sign it for the good it does and suck it up about the bad, or veto it because of the bad and never get anything good done.
It would be nice if everytime the american government does something stupid that the appropriate parties were held accountable, and not make the claim that Bush did this or that.... |
I agree that lawmakers often have to weigh the good and the bad in bills, but this isn't what I'm talking about at all.
Bush has the power to make high-level appointments. He also has the power to write the nation's energy policies. Bush has consistently put former oil people into positions high up in the EPA, and he has consistently let the energy industry help to write the nation's energy policy.
It is true that congress had to pass the SUV tax loophole, but it was all part of Bush's tax cut package. Make no mistake about it; his administration put it in there.
Do you realize how bad this SUV tax loophole is? Basically, if your SUV costs less than $100,000, the U.S. government will buy it for you. You don't pay a penny for it. Who do you think put this into the tax cut package?
Seriously, you can't make this stuff up! The government buys you a gas-guzzling SUV, and then you use more gasoline... Who does this benefit? It benefits the oil industry, so I'm guessing it was their lobbyists who convinced the Bush administration to put it in there.
Doesn't this outrage you?
Also, does it seem like a coincidence to you that after letting the oil companies write the nation's energy policies, all of a sudden they are making record profits, and the American people are getting screwed at the pumps?
Doesn't this outrage you?
And because of all this, the ice-caps are going to melt, and your kids and grandkids are going to have to live in a world that is much worse than the one you grew up in.
Again, doesn't this cause outrage on your part?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: |
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If I were an American with an SUV, it probably wouldn't outrage me because I get a free car, and my government would assure me that global warming either is a myth, or isn't as bad as those crazy scientists keep saying it is, or won't happen to me.
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
Ana's Bananas |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Sign me up P! I need a new car - how do I get this free SUV?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Sign me up P! I need a new car - how do I get this free SUV? |
If you own a small business, you have to pay taxes for it. The loophole is that if you buy an SUV weighing more than 6000 lbs and worth less than $100,000, then you get to subtract the cost of the SUV from the taxes that you have to pay.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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What else? There has to be more...
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | What else? There has to be more... |
That's not bad enough?!? Remember, this is a clear example of the government encouraging people to waste as much gasoline as possible.
Do you agree that this legislation is highly suspicious? Why would Bush have included this in his tax cut plan unless the oil companies were asking him to put it there?
If only they would try to encourage people to drive fuel efficient cars with such generous tax cuts! Like I said, it's opposite day.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Just to give a good example, tons of small-business owners are buying Hummers and then painting their store's logos on the side. Here are the stats on the H2:
| Quote: | # Fuel tank holds 32 gallons.
# Cruising range of 310 miles at an average of 30-40 mph over a hard surface and rolling terrain.
# That's 9.6 mpg. |
Now consider the fuel economy of a Toyota Prius:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius
It says here that they get about 58.8 miles per gallon, and apparently you can get upgrade kits that improve that to 100-160 mpg.
The Honda Insight gets something in the 60s, and again can be upgraded to about 100-160 mpg with a kit.
Seriously, look at these numbers and tell me that the Bush administration is even remotely trying to cut America's addiction to Middle Eastern oil.
Here's an idea: immediately repeal the tax cut for gas guzzlers, and then go one step further and put an extra tax on them. Then start giving out sweetheart tax cuts to anyone buying a vehicle that gets more than 50 mpg, and make the tax cut proportional to how fuel efficient the vehicle is.
Instead, right now people buying Hummers are getting sweetheart tax cuts!!!
The average fuel economy in the U.S. today is about 27.5 mpg. If we double this (and the technology to do this has now existed for years -it doesn't need to be developed), then we cut the amount of oil we're importing by half!
Incidentally, which do you think is more expensive, a Prius or an H2?
And yes, the Prius is considered to be a midsize car, so it has plenty of room for luggage and kids!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | That's not bad enough?!? Remember, this is a clear example of the government encouraging people to waste as much gasoline as possible.
Do you agree that this legislation is highly suspicious? Why would Bush have included this in his tax cut plan unless the oil companies were asking him to put it there? |
I do not agree.
I think there is more to this 'loophole' than you are either posting, or are aware. I think the story as presented in this thread is lacking information either by failure to understand the entirety of the subject or by intentional obsfucation.
I am not supporting this 'loophole' by anymeans, I'm simply pointng out that your presentation of the idea is deficient.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | That's not bad enough?!? Remember, this is a clear example of the government encouraging people to waste as much gasoline as possible.
Do you agree that this legislation is highly suspicious? Why would Bush have included this in his tax cut plan unless the oil companies were asking him to put it there? |
I do not agree.
I think there is more to this 'loophole' than you are either posting, or are aware. I think the story as presented in this thread is lacking information either by failure to understand the entirety of the subject or by intentional obsfucation.
I am not supporting this 'loophole' by anymeans, I'm simply pointng out that your presentation of the idea is deficient. |
Well, I'll tell you right now that I'm not intentionally obfuscating anything. If I'm ignorant of some facts, then by all means please point them out.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: |
I am not supporting this 'loophole' by anymeans, I'm simply pointng out that your presentation of the idea is deficient. |
Cite, please?
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
Ana's Bananas |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Cite what? My opinion?
| Quote: | | I think there is more to this 'loophole' than you are either posting, or are aware. I think the story as presented in this thread is lacking information |
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | I'm simply pointng out that your presentation of the idea is deficient. |
This sounds like an assertion, to me, and besides, wouldn't you like for your opinion to be based on something, rather than on nothing at all?
I know that if I were having suspicions that there was more to the story than this, I'd check into it...
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
Ana's Bananas |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I know that if I were having suspicions that there was more to the story than this, I'd check into it... |
That would be based on the assumption that I care. Which in this particular instance, since I don't own a small business, I don't very much.
| Quote: | | This sounds like an assertion, |
It is. It's an assertion of my suspicion that all the facts have not been presented.
Government does not do anything small, and this 'loophole' must have contained much more information, requirements, disqualifications, etc. I simply asserted my suspicion that not all of that information had been offered.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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