Animosity

millerbussey · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 10:14 pm Post subject:

Rev, remember it's a journey to be like Christ. some of us are babes, some teenagers, and some maturing adults, and everything between. we act accordingly.

may God bless you.
_________________
"be ye transformed, by the renewing of your mind, through the washing of the Word".

Dshadna · German Shepherd Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 344

Anything within quotes that is written in purple is my own thoughts, and put with each statement as it came in order to make sense, and keep the posts from being even longer than it is.

Van · Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:10 am Post subject: Attacks

RevJP has attacked me personally, has said I am rude, prideful, and that my arguments are personal. I have never said anything personal concerning RevJP. I have said the position taken is pro-abortion. This whole thread is a red herring, shifting the debate from abortion to the behavior of the participants. I am done. I have demonstrated with specific quotes that I have been insulted. Thus the animosity has been directed toward me, not from me.

Now, it has been said that my argument is based on the false premise of two wrongs make a right. Since RevJP has insulted me personally, it is ok for me to insult RevJP. False. I have not insulted RevJP, I have just described the position as without merit and this is not an insult according to RevJP own words. But note the sophistry in the argument. I am attacked then accused of being the attacker. Sophistry.

Now I have been charged with calling Rev stupid or foolish. Falsehood. I said the arguments were drivel, blather and bogus. But note the sophistry.

I am done with this thread - it is a farce.

Dshadna · German Shepherd Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 344

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7000 Location: USA

Van, you are right. This whole thing is a farce. I came to this board with a eye on learning and sharing thoughts on biblical matters. I have to admit that I did not start out here with a heart filled with the Spirit, but instead a mind filled with my own self.

I have been undergoing a transformation, thank the Lord, and am letting God rework me as He wills. As that work progresses, so will my posts and questions. I often use the tactic of devil's advocate when investigating a topic, because if someone states a position, I want to find out if that position is scripturally or spiritually truthful, or if that position is a construct of the self - what they choose to belief and in turn support from their pride that their thoughts have to be the correct thoughts.

My goal here is to learn, and to share. I want to learn from those who are strong in the Lord, who are righteous, not self-righteous. I want to learn from those or filled with the Spirit and embody the love of God and are trying to live the Christ-like life.

Unfortunately I cannot know who these people are or are not, but by the flavor and content of their posts. From this day forth I will no longer directly engage in exchanges with those who do not walk in the spirit as evidenced by their posts, with the exception of those posts which present themselves as genuine but are clearly not. As Nobby put it:

Dshadna · German Shepherd Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 344

It has been made abundently clear here at this *Biblical Forum*, that if you do not believe what the majority believes, if you question their belief system, if you dare to challenge their *biblical authority*, that you are not welcome here. You are said to be *twisting the Bible's words for your own gain*, called or implied to be *the devil's tool*, *guilty of spreading lies and falsehoods*.

I have read almost every single posts on this forum, and find ample evidence to the above statement. I have seen the *christian right* begin berating and tearing down those who voice any opinion that counters theirs. I've seen how the *religious majority* here have taken people such as Fake, RevJP and others to task for voicing any dissent among them, and yet, it is Fake, who admits to being more of a secular humanist than a Christian, and Rev, who freely admits that he is searching for the *TRUTH* from God's word, and a few others; that have shown the most genuine of Christian love here on these boards.

I intentionally leave Nobby out of this on either side, for as a moderator, he is forced to walk a fine line between the two. I have in my own way admonished him for what I took as a slight against those of us with differing opinions, and he has explained himself clearly to me, and I don't see any reason to include him in this statement to the *religious majority* , or dissenting minority here.

For this reason, I tell you that I don't believe the majority of you are practicing that which you pruport to teach. You say that we must love one another, yet you berate others for their beliefs. You say that I have spread falsehoods, and lies, but yet that is exactly what the majority here are doing themselves, in your actions, deeds, and condemnations of others.* As you point your finger of judgement at me and others who differ in our opinions from you, you should consider the three fingers of judgement that are pointing back at yourself.
*John 3:18 says, "Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth."
The actions of many of you, belie the truth of your words.
Condemnation is the opposite of love, hope, joy, it is the abandonment of another. It is not edifying to Christ or the Church. (body of believers)

It is religiousity that is at work here, not the art of religious debate, or learning that is the norm here. The anomisity of many here is unequalled to that of the anomosity I have faced at secular boards by admitted agnostics and aethists. Even Lestat has at least been honest in his animosity toward myself and others, while holding no pretense of Christianity or otherwise. (No, Lestat, that is in no way a slam against you, but rather praise that you represent yourself truly and without pretense).
It is the holding onto of religious superiority that is at work here, not the art of studying and learning, and compromise that is the norm here. I do not ask you to compromise your beliefs, but I'll not allow you to force me to compromise my beliefs either.

I serve the Lord Jesus Christ, The Father, and am guided each day by the Holy Spirit. Everything I do, I try to always rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but as a Human, I fail at times, just as you do also. I try to live my life as Jesus Christ has asked me to, and I will continue to do so, with or without the support of my *fellow christians* here. True Christians show love and mercy and do not dain to become judge and jury over others, no matter how strong or weak the faith of the one they purport to be helping.

The fruits of the spirit are:
Galatians 5:
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

and I'm sorry to say, that has been sorely missing here in this forum of professed christians.

I John 3:19-24:
This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

How do I know that Christ does not condemn me? Because I know I belong to His Truth, and my heart is at rest within Him. I have confidence before God, that whatever I ask of Him, I will receive, because I do obey His commandments and do what pleases Him. I believe in the name of Jesus Christ his Son, and I will continue to love all of you as Christ has commanded. I know that He lives in me, by the Spirit *Holy Spirit* who resides in me. And not one person can take THAT TRUTH AWAY!!

****
Meanings of some of the words I used in this posts, for those who may not know what they mean. It is not intended for anything other than a quick guide to the words, without having to go and search for meanings if you are unaware of what they mean.

Berate:To rebuke or scold angrily and at length
Condemnation:Severe reproof; strong censure. The act of condemning or pronouncing to be wrong; censure; blame
purport:To have or present the often false appearance of being or intending; profess:
religiosity:Excessive or affected piety (piety:A position held conventionally or hypocritically)
superiority:Affecting an attitude of disdain or conceit; haughty and supercilious.
dissenting:To differ in opinion or feeling; disagree.
edifying:To instruct and improve, especially in moral and religious knowledge; to teach.
belie:contradict; show to be false;misrepresent:

Yes, I know this is a long post, but it is necessary in this instance to do so.

Van · Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:13 pm Post subject: False teachers

False teachers should be not be allowed to twist the Word of God. We should not be tolerant of those that teach a different gospel. Who are they? How do you tell. Could Van be a false teacher, cruely ridiculing anyone who disagrees with his twisted and intoleratant view? Let's see, how does the bible teach us to recognize false teachers?

These are the grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.

Nobby, you are truly fantasic, so intelligent and kind and thoughful and since you are the moderator please pull the plug on all these false teachers. If Van said that, it would seem he fits the pattern. But Van instead has differed in Christian love, with Nobby.

Perhaps Van should write about animosity. How all those unkind members of the board call him rude, prideful and lacking in love for fellow Christians. Yeah, maybe I could go around intent on starting arguments about me and my cause. But if I did, I would fit the pattern of a false teacher.

Perhaps I should take on a holier than thou attitude, saying that since I am so close to God, and listen to him and follow him, I am sure what I am saying is the God's truth. But if I did, I would fit the pattern of a false teacher.

Perhaps I should find fault with others, tell them their posts need to be improved, be kinder and gentler. The posts should be less sophmoric. And on topic. Yeah, let me post constantly about what I see is wrong with others. Tell them if they were real Christians, they would accept my views. But if I did, if I tossed anyone that opposes me into the ungodly sinner catigory that should change their behavior, I would fit the pattern of a false teacher.

Now if you see someone who fits the pattern of a false teacher, how should you confront them? Remember that not matter what you say, you will be accured of harboring animosity in your heart. The answer dear friends is to confront them and when they spread insinuations about you, count it all Joy. May God bless and keep you, now and forever.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7000 Location: USA

Well said Van, I'm sure your martyr status has assured you your place in heaven.

As for me, I will continue to QUESTION, to search, to learn. I will let those who no everything TEACH and accuse, and insult, and take joy in their actions.

May the Lord bless you and keep you, so be it.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog

Dshadna · German Shepherd Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 344

I believe Rev, that Van has demonstrated your point of anomisty that you began this thread about while masquarding in the form of *holier than thou* quite well. And look, he actually used that as a demonstration of how NOT to be. As you stated Rev, his

Captain Vegetable · Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Well said Van

Dshadna · German Shepherd Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 344

Being of Christ is exactly about being loving and tolerent. It doesn't mean compromising your beliefs, but rather to be tolerant of anothers beliefs. Anyone who would say otherwise, is not acting in a Christ like manner, and needs to find their own way to rectify it with the Lord.

The way that you and Van continue to equate yourself to the level of the Lord Jesus Christ is quite beyond my grasps. Forgive me, but there is not one, NO NOT ONE person who can ever equal up to the love and compassion that Jesus Christ himself showed to sinners.

He came to tax collectors, prostitutes, lepers, adulterors and the like with love and compassion and mercy. Christ himself was without sin, and so, if he had chosen to be intolerant and unloving, then I'd guess it was justified. You and Van, like myself, are sinners, inherently born as such, without any thing except Christ to save us.

Continue to delude yourself into thinking that you're spreading the *True word of Christ in compassion and love*, it isn't so, and you know it if you'll actually look back at yourself and your conduct here. I've already admitted my faults, while you and Van continue to justify yours with the fallacy of *I'm doing it in Christ's name and for his glory*. There is no justification for your actions or attitudes, for the rudeness at times, and the snide comments, veiled with *hating the sin, but not the sinner*. Your actions have belied the truth of that statement tenfold. I have been called a false teacher, a tool of the devil and other such things by you, van and others. If that's your christian love and mercy at work, then please take it to yourself, with those who dare not to disagree with you on any topic and who dare not to sully the *gospel according to Cap't and Van amoung others*.

Personally, I'll stick to Christ's Love and Mercy, and continue to bask in the Glory of His love and acceptance of me in the state in which he made me. I'll continue to know that I serve a Risen Savior who died for *WHOMSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM*. You may keep your religion, your religiousity, your religious supiority and the like and bask in your *rightousness* for as long as you wish.

I serve the same Christ the RevJP serves, the one that told us what the fruits of the Spirit are, the one who told us to *Love our neighbor as ourself*, the one who told us to *walk the walk and talk the talk of Christ* [yes that's paraphrased badly] the one who said, "Do unto others as you'd have them to do unto you".

Feel free to respond with the same venemous attacks with which you and van have taken of late. Feel free to pat yourselves on the back for your *religious morals that are above reproach from the reprobates of this world* Feel free to contine to delude yourselves into thinking that you show *CHRIST LOVE* through your words, actions and deeds. You will face HIS judgement on judgement day, NOT mine.

I for one, have had enough of the backbiting, hypcrosiy and animosity shown by the majority of posters here. I've never said I was perfect, I never said I had all the answers, and I never said I couldn't be wrong. I've said, I've made mistakes, I've allowed my human nature to take over at times, and I've apologized for those things. I will not apologize anymore for the same things over and over. Christ died on the Cross once for those sins, and I'll not crucify him again, over and over, just to appeal to your and Van or anyone else's sensibilities.

Van · Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 10:19 pm Post subject: More of the same

I did not see anything is the last post but more falsehoods, slander and ad hominems. You song, poor pitiful me, grows tiresome. I described biblically the behavior of a false teacher. If the shoe fits... change your ways, not because of my opinions, but because you live by the word of God.

And another false assertion, Christ it is claimed taught Christians to be tolerant of non-Christian views. Blather. Note this is not an attack on you, it is an attack on a false teaching that you have espoused. So long as you keep on teaching falsehoods, I will keep on quoting scripture that demonstrates the falsehoods you post.

Revelation 2:20: "But I have this against you, you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray, so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols."

The point is Jesus said we should not tolerate false teachers.

But here is what was said: Being of Christ is exactly about being loving and tolerent. It doesn't mean compromising your beliefs, but rather to be tolerant of anothers beliefs. Anyone who would say otherwise, is not acting in a Christ like manner, and needs to find their own way to rectify it with the Lord.

Judge for yourself who is the false teacher, Christ or the author of the above blather. And blather is just another word for an argument or position that is nonsense. It is just a way of saying the position is without merit. Same for drivel and bogus - just descriptions of arguments that are without merit. If I asserted something contrary to the clear teaching of the bible it would be accurate to say it was drivel, blather and bogus. To do less is to tolerate false teaching which is against the clear teaching of Christ. We are to stand firm and not tolerate teachings that differ from the word of God.

Dshadna · German Shepherd Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 344

I can then call you a false teacher, for false teacher's pepper their arguments with claims and justifications of their behavior, while pointing out the errors of anothers way. You have shown ample evidence yourself of being a false teacher in your actions and so on. You do, what you accuse others of doing, and use the justification of being morally and religiously superior. Please continue on!!

Justify it to Christ!!

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7000 Location: USA

Dshadna · German Shepherd Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 344

Rev,
I wish I had asked that question about why he and certian others use language designed to bait others into arguments, or to offend others intentionally.