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yeldud
Newbie Alert
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: Gods creator |
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Look, first of all I don't mean to question anyones faith or religion.
But I do have lots of questions.
1. If everything is created, What created GOD ? because you cant tell
me somthing just is. you cant get somthing from nothing.
2. Why is it that there is constant war going on because of religion ?
Surely GOD should have stepped in by now. ( thou shall not kill )
3. Does it not say in the bible that there is only one GOD, all others
are mans creation ?
I have many more. But please reply to these if you have the answer. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6269
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Unmoved mover, God is beyond time, hem haw.
| Quote: | 1. If everything is created, What created GOD ? because you cant tell
me somthing just is. you cant get somthing from nothing. |
You can if it's God! The cosmological argument is hilarious.
1. Every effect has a cause(s).
2. Nothing can cause itself.
3. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length.
4. Therefore, there must be a first cause; or, there must be something which is not an effect.
All you have to do is prove 1 (you can't), prove 3 (you can't), and then define God as "not an effect!" Done!
| Quote: | 2. Why is it that there is constant war going on because of religion ?
Surely GOD should have stepped in by now. ( thou shall not kill ) |
Because the other people (who these others are depends on which religion you follow) are blind/refuse to hear the truth/are influenced by the devil/are the devil. Duh!
| Quote: | 3. Does it not say in the bible that there is only one GOD, all others
are mans creation ? |
Well, no. There are an abundance of other "real" gods in the Old Testament. That's the purpose of the first commandment, that while there are other gods, YHWH is the important one and you can bugger off if you don't like it.
Oh wait, I mean "yes, all other gods are fakes! The devil's inventions!"
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1501
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Gods creator |
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FFT is teasing a bit, but his points are valid....I'll try and give a little straighter answer...
| yeldud wrote: |
1. If everything is created, What created GOD ? because you cant tell
me somthing just is. you cant get somthing from nothing. |
God is SUPRAnatural, meaning that the "normal" laws of the universe don't apply to him, so, as an example God could come from nothing....
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2. Why is it that there is constant war going on because of religion ?
Surely GOD should have stepped in by now. ( thou shall not kill ) |
Now here is the rub...This supranatural being (that transcends space and time) supposedly made a direct contract with 1 species living on 1 planet in this whole universe (maybe he made similar deals with dolphins or martians, but we have no evidence of that  ) At any rate, I think it's a fair question....makes it kind of hard to not at least believe that God doesn't mind all these wars...he's ambivelent to death and suffering at best...
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3. Does it not say in the bible that there is only one GOD, all others
are mans creation ? |
FFT summed that up pretty good....and if you really look at Christianity, they ran into a problem with Jesus as the Son of God...that made Jesus at least a demi-god if not actually creating 2 Gods...the Solution? The creation of the Trinity... 
| Quote: |
I have many more. But please reply to these if you have the answer. |
Have a search around here, I think you'll find alot of your questions have been addressed, but feel free to ask.
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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yeldud
Newbie Alert
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: the devil and god. |
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| o.k. heres the deal. you have saturn and his creator (god). saturn chose self love and was punished by be tossed out of heaven. if he is the true meaning of all evil, why just not destroy him instead ? because if god could wipe out millions (Noah and the ark) whats the problem with just one ? |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6269
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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You mean Satan?
The story of Satan is not so simple. In the Old Testament, there are no passages that say anything about Satan falling. Those that appear to only appear so due to relatively modern misinterpretations of them.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Gods creator |
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| yeldud wrote: |
1. If everything is created, What created GOD ? because you cant tell
me somthing just is. you cant get somthing from nothing.
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FFT did a fairly good job with the SIMPLE answer to this question.
Only those effects (physical) require a cause. God, being Supernatural, falling outside of space, time, and matter, does not require a cause simply because He is not subjected to the natural laws He created...
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Helper
Growing Guppy
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Yeldud
I’m happy to see your mind is thinking and asking questions. I’ll give it a try to answer what I can.
| Quote: | 1.If everything is created, What created GOD ? because you cant tell
me somthing just is. you cant get somthing from nothing. |
No one can answer this question. God is the creator we are the created. I hope some day to ask this question myself.
| Quote: | 2. Why is it that there is constant war going on because of religion ?
Surely GOD should have stepped in by now. ( thou shall not kill )
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This question is excellent. I believe it takes a lot of prayerful asking to satisfy our souls over this one. I am going to give a go at it.
Starting with the Big Picture, God’s plan, for mankind, one must ask Who put Satan in the Garden of Eden? And why was he put there? I believe God is the answer to both of these questions. Satan serves God’s purpose. Read the account of Job in the bible and I believe you’ll see exactly this taking place.
Concerning mankind we have been given by God freedom and choice. If God were to pull the strings on either of these two things, then we would be nothing but robots.
We are free to make good and bad choices, even choices that harm or kill others.
Remember God is most interested in the souls of mankind, we reason with a physical perspective He sees a much larger picture, physical and spiritual.
The ten commandments were made for mankind in relating with one another. Many times we mix this in with levels of authority. For example a policeman has authority over a citizen. A jury has authority over an accused person. A country can and doe’s go to war asking it’s citizens to serve in this purpose, and this is permitted by God. When God was King over Isreal He directed them in war.
| Quote: | 2. Does it not say in the bible that there is only one GOD, all others
are mans creation ? |
Yes, I believe this is correct, that there is only one true God. Mankind has made many things a god and has worshiped them. It’s hard for mankind to find, embrace and learn from someone he can’t see.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 and thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thine heart:
Deu 6:7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Don’t give up in asking questions, this is the best way to learn about God and what He wants for us. That’s why the scripture says:
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Love in Christ
Ron |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: |
1. Every effect has a cause(s).
2. Nothing can cause itself.
3. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length.
4. Therefore, there must be a first cause; or, there must be something which is not an effect.
All you have to do is prove 1 (you can't), prove 3 (you can't), and then define God as "not an effect!" Done! |
Interestingly enough, it is conceivable that 1, 2, and 3 are true, but 4 is false. Just think of time travel; you could get all sorts of causal chains which form cycles. (I'm assuming that in 2, cause means "immediate cause".)
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6269
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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There would still have to be a first cause or you've got an infinitely long causal chain, just one that loops (or spirals? I hate time travel sometimes) at least once.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | There would still have to be a first cause or you've got an infinitely long causal chain, just one that loops (or spirals? I hate time travel sometimes) at least once. |
Interesting point. Is a circular causal chain infinite or is it finite? The way I was looking at it, it has a finite number of steps in it, so it is finite. But when you start counting the elements more than once, it becomes infinite.
I wonder what Hegel would have to say about this?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1256
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Which came first: the chicken or the egg?
I find it interesting that there are people who believe in evolution but cannot believe that God does and always has existed.
Evolutionists ask you to believe that millions of plant and animal life forms spontaneously came to be from some kind of a cell or micro-organism. I have three basic problems with this:
1. Where did the cells that would eventually evolve in to a life form come from? Were they created or did they always just 'exist?'
2. How can so many varied life forms all be just 'accidents of nature?'
3. How can anyone believe in evolution as opposed to creation given that the theory of evolution asks you to believe that everything created itself, did it perfectly and in so many many different forms? (The theory of evolution asks you to believe in millions of miracles and some believe; creation asks that we believe just one miracle and many doubt).
Luv |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6269
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| luvnlife wrote: | | I find it interesting that there are people who believe in evolution but cannot believe that God does and always has existed. |
It's not that I can't, it's that I don't.
| luvnlife wrote: | | Evolutionists ask you to believe that millions of plant and animal life forms spontaneously came to be from some kind of a cell or micro-organism. |
Spontaneously? No, not quite.
| luvnlife wrote: | | 1. Where did the cells that would eventually evolve in to a life form come from? Were they created or did they always just 'exist?' |
They would have been "created" by natural processes.
| luvnlife wrote: | | 2. How can so many varied life forms all be just 'accidents of nature?' |
| luvnlife wrote: | | 3. How can anyone believe in evolution as opposed to creation given that the theory of evolution asks you to believe that everything created itself, |
Never seen anything like this in a textbook, where did you see this?
| luvnlife wrote: | | did it perfectly |
Do you believe that life on Earth is perfect?
| luvnlife wrote: | | and in so many many different forms? |
(Anxiously waiting "but they're all still snowflakes!" response)
| luvnlife wrote: | | (The theory of evolution asks you to believe in millions of miracles and some believe; |
Coincidence perhaps, but no belief in supernatural intervention is required.
| luvnlife wrote: | | creation asks that we believe just one miracle and many doubt |
I would hope you would agree that there is more than one miracle in the Bible.
Evolution is what is implied by the evidence. Believe what you will about the "truth" of the matter but the science that gets results is evolution-based.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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don't eat yellow snow...  |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1799
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| But They're All Still Snowflakes! |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Gods creator |
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| yeldud wrote: | Look, first of all I don't mean to question anyones faith or religion.
But I do have lots of questions.
1. If everything is created, What created GOD ? because you cant tell
me somthing just is. you cant get somthing from nothing. |
Atoz: one of the greatest questions.
Answer: Another God created God!
Example: a trillion years from now, I as a member of the God family will be asked that q: and my reply wil be: Oh! My dad who is now a God too created me way back!
| yeldud wrote: |
2. Why is it that there is constant war going on because of religion ?
Surely GOD should have stepped in by now. ( thou shall not kill )
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atoz: Because people hate their enemies instead of loving them.
And they hate their enemies becaause they hate themselves as their own worse enemies: it is the first sin to hate even myself as an enemy because God loves me as both a friend and as an enemy.
Romans 5:5-8. matthew 5:43-48.
God will finally step in in Love.
| yeldud wrote: |
3. Does it not say in the bible that there is only one GOD, all others
are mans creation ?
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atoz: simply because all other Gods are simply the one true God by those other names.
I have many more. But please reply to these if you have the answer.
see acts 10:34-35.
in Love of God and all men,
atoz |
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